Conceding the corner


(Bryan Williams ) #1

If your entering a long horseshoe/ sweeping turn at what point do you give up the inside line? Or do you have to? If I take a wide entry and another driver has a good run and is able to get his kart along side me is it my job to hold a bit off line so I don’t “turn in” to him? How much kart needs to be along side me? What are people’s opinion on this? I have mine but I won’t say because I want to see what other have to say.
I guess you could apply this to any corner.


(Alan Dove) #2

From the description alone it’s hard to judge, but generally speaking if someone is on the inside and you notice, then it’s usually best to concede. If you don’t you’re likely to get run wide on exit and lose more time than you otherwise would. That’s essentially the calculation. You have clearly exposed yourself to risk and now it’s about judging what’s the least worst scenario is. If there’s a kart on your inside (enough that you notice) and you turn in on them, well due to the momentum of their kart (which makes it very difficult to take avoiding action) then you deserve everything you get in my view.

I tend to find that the most aggressive drivers (though not always) also know when to concede. The ones that don’t, more often than not, fail to get consistent finishes because their actions always get paid back at some point.

I race without any pods on and I can assure you when you’re that exposed, ‘turning in’ on people is not high on the agenda. If you’ve lost a corner, you’ve lost the corner.


(Chris Hinrichs) #3

I have always raced that if someone is 1/2 way up on the inside I need to leave them room. To attempt to make the pass.


(TJ Koyen) #4

Agree with everything said above.

If the contesting driver gets alongside you to a point where he has a chance to keep the position or maintain with you off the corner, he’s probably at a point where you need to concede the position.


(Bryan Williams ) #5

Sounds about right. That’s pretty much how I’ve always raced. If someone gets about half a kart on my inside or maybe even less I’m not going to just give it to him but I will maintain my outside line giving room to the inside driver. I may even slow down a bit more so I can get back on the throttle sooner to try and drive around him at exit.


(Alan Dove) #6

sounds like you’re not in agreement :slight_smile: It’s fine to give it a go, but don’t be surprised to be run out of room on the exit of the corner (obviously this is corner dependent) more frequently than not.

the way I see it is you either defend the corner and not lose position (but risk exit) or try and go in hard but know that you’re exposed. The risk on being the type of driver who likes to hang it out the outside is so high it’s not worth it unless it’s the last few lap of a race and you f*cked up the corner.

It would help if we had some onboard of said corner. If it’s fast and wide as shit… then running the outside might work


(Bryan Williams ) #7

Yeah I see what your saying I guess I would just expect if I give you room on my inside by not pinching you that maybe the favor is returned by not pushing me off the track on exit. Maybe I just like side by side racing and always looked at it that it’s not impossible for two karts to go side by side around an entire track. Probably wouldn’t be the fastest way around though.


(Bryan Williams ) #8

I’ll work on a short clip


(Bryan Williams ) #9

I know I was a bit aggressive on the pass attempt but was desperate to get around him. Laps were winding down and I felt I had the faster kart. I guess I just thought if I stuck my kart in there he would of had to back off and not turn in. Obviously it ruined my race and hindsight is 20/20 and I wouldn’t try that a 2nd time.


(Justin Dittrich) #10

I’ll put it this way: If I were making a call on this, I’d have handed out a penalty for that move if you hadn’t crashed off as well. The driver in front was already turned in and you pretty much just nosed your way down the inside. You needed to be about two feet closer.


(Bryan Williams ) #11

I can respect that call. Like I said I wouldn’t try it again. Should have been more patient. And if I was more on his bumper before I turned in it could have ended allot better for me.


(Bryan Williams ) #12

I’ve got another one. I do appreciate the honest opinion because I do want to be a better driver to learn from mistakes, mine or not.

What’s the thought on this incident.
Go to about the 58 sec mark.


(Bryan Williams ) #13

Same incident from a kart back.
Go to 1:04

https://youtu.be/mwc8CMJIn4k


(Alan Dove) #14

Nice move on the inside. However the positioning of the kart (who you overtook) to the right was so off-line that it meant he was always going to struggle to make the next corner. he should have conceded and slotted in behind you (or you brake early for a switch back because his line was so compromised), but it was pretty much a racing incident. In the future always be wary about when you do someone in that area because they are then heavily compromised for the next right hander, especially if it’s not FULLY complete…\

Moves like this which are later in a fast corner always throw up a hole host of little intricacies that are hard to get 100% right all the time


(Bryan Williams ) #15

Ok thanks. In the 2nd video I thought I had cleared him more than I did or I certainly would have taken a wider entry so he could get back in the turn. Also IMO he should have just got out of the gas and tucked back in behind me.


(Alan Dove) #16

There was contact so he had to deal with that before anything else. The move was late (and nice) but with the next corner being a tight right there’s not much time for him to concede and comfortably slide behind. It’s his mistake (I think he thought “I’ll have this pr*ck back”), yes, but that’s racing. You have to be wary of the consequences of such actions.


(Mike Clark) #17

Thanks for being one of the ‘good guys’ that wants to drive correctly.
I’d say video 1 was on you and video 2 was not.
There are a few factors if one wants to argue the point.
I general if the trailing kart isn’t up enough to prevent the lead kart from turning in I’d say trailing kart should concede If lead kart cannot turn in without hitting trailing kart lead kart should concede.
In almost every case lead kart being hit anytime later than apex the the trailing kart is at fault. IMHO a trailing kart shouldn’t be making contact once braking is even a consideration. By the first 1/3 of a corner both drivers should have realized who has the corner or at least the other is clueless. Sometimes karts do come together in slight misjudgments normal racing.
I do feel as the lead kart I can tell the difference between a slight mistake and someone punting me. I have been racing rental league lately and some think the bumpers are there to definitely be used. Some of if it is ignorance and some is just an entitlement attitude. I a normal sprint kart a push vs bump is preferred. I feel if you are faster enough to bump then you should be able to get around without a punt.
2 things that help mitigate the problem are the officials actually doing something about it and slower driver giving a point by. I hate to go to option #3. In rental league the karts don’t get airborne and damaged as easily. In sprint the stakes are much higher and hopefully drivers learn quickly if they didn’t come in with the correct attitude.
Keeping the outside is a tactic that may work. But I have found turning in and apexing later a good counter as well, mostly when trailing kart had to carry to much speed to get under you. If they are carrying too much speed it has to go somewhere. A part of the discipline is to realize I am only capable of diving my kart to it’s limit. If the other guy has a higher limit I can’t do anything about it at that time. Running in mixed classes or with a non parity of karts, you sometimes just have to play it smart. It is always smart not crash. Even when totally in the right it might pay to back off and watch the next crash in front of you than to get an inside view. Last week many were faster than me into a hairpin. None of them were staying on pavement and I was always faster in the next corner complex. Later it was just a repass as they struggle to maintain pavement under the tires. I was faster or equal there all day due to being smart in the beginning. A couple of times I did back off and let the mess not involve me. We even had to red flag a start due to a lights driver going off hard prior to green flag. A factor for conceding can be what driver it is . . . . . .