2 stroke EFI is a thing. TM actually has an EFI 125 enduro model in their MC lineup:
The problem with karting is the relative cost spread compared to MC markets for an EFI motor would be too high because the kart market is much smaller, & I say this as a proponent of EFI 2 strokes.
What model is the EFI 2T TM?
I think the application of two stroke EFI is more challenging with a KZ vs moto application. As Alan mentioned above, karting is much more equipment (and tuning) dependent and the KZ is a much more highly strung application.
That said, the EFI system I’m working on will have two injection channels for the purpose of two strokes because it seems the direction is headed toward four injectors per cylinder. Two on one channel for partial throttle operation and a second pair (second channel) that gets added for WFO operation.
several of the ‘Fi’ enduro models are here - Enduro - TM Racing
i have a faint memory of their being doubts around EFI tech in karts, especially in development classes. TM don’t really bother with spec offerings either which open the door for different tech. As an aside, they barely post at all about their karting products on their social media.
What about KTM? Not sure why this would be the way to go rather than KZ but another option.
The bike retails for $7999 but I’ve seen it for $7499.
From what I understand, KTM won’t allow their engines to be sold separately from the motorcycle.
I noticed MRC had the KTM250 as an option but I think the price for the engine might have been near that of a bike.
The sustained high RPM in karting is definitely a challenge for EFI, & considering MX bikes do hit the same upper RPM range for shorter moments, the capability is there. I think it’s strictly an issue of market economics. There’s probably not enough perceived potential buyers out there to dilute the costs enough to keep the pricing at an acceptable level. I also have to wonder if electric drive is perceived as the future, though I personally think that’s much further away than most think.
With regard to EV Karts, I see the problem will be charging batteries or the need for 3 or 4 battery packs per day. Battery packs are somewhat expensive.
I see the problem as cultural. What you gain with electric you lose with the culture of ICE. It’s a massive infrastructure of people. also sensory aspect to motorsport will be lost. People underestimate this massively.
Adapt or die? Sure. But sometimes adaptation fails, as evolution tells us.
Not sure how we got to EV, but yeah it has a different set of challenges for infrastructure, vehicle weight and batteries cost/availability.
If I was doing an EV project I’d be looking at a performance sweet spot around world formula level performance. 15HP or so.
The trend seems to be to make EV karts perform like a TaG but the battery tech is just not here yet, and performance/speed doesn’t actually matter as much as some of us might think when it comes to actual sales. If you need proof look no further than the 206 class. (I’m not saying an electric kart isn’t fast, they can be incredibly fast…. My point is that managing batteries and heat at the at the TaG/shifter performance level diminishes the benefits of an EV kart.)
So my 2c is that EV karts are more likely to gain adoption if they are brought to the market in a package that’s fast enough” while not carrying excessive weight or cost in batteries.
I think a battery rental model, not unlike what we have with transponders might be a good bridge for drivers who don’t want to pony up, maintain and drag around extra battery packs. The track/club manages the batteries, drivers swap them as needed. Makes the infrastructure challenge a little easier too.
Ev rentals are pretty nice, they pull well and feel responsive. I wonder what they’d compare to in ice terms. Feels like gx270 top end with kt100 lower end pull, but less dramatic.
I am totally agree with you on that. Especially for a industry with 2stroke. Road cars switch to EV because of no choice. It is not the case for karting. For same amount of HP/weight ratio, EV no long has the advantage. Running a 2 cycle is expensive, but EV always come with a huge front cost, weight and potentially fire fire hazard.
On the other hand, I think hybrid is a good solution for today in a KERS kind of way. The electric motor can help motor to reach the peak power band quick, and regen can help the kart to slow down. In this case, battery can be bit cheap and light. Something like WF + 5 EV HP should cost close to a KA package.
SS batteries would solve the those issues, but they’d be cutting edge & expensive until the mass market can scale down the price. Toyota is pouring nad resources into SS R&D at this time. But there’s still the issues of mass scale power production (Sorry, solar & wind “renewables” won’t cut it) & infrastructure to deliver the goods in order to make the big picture viable, & I’m not seeing much practical commotion on those fronts.
Right now, I’m still in the EFI camp. I’ve always wanted an EFI shifter engine, & thought it might be around the corner within the last decade, but nobody delivered.
somebody said renewables power?
You been sneaking a peak at our business model?!?! We couldnt agree more. Just need @Matt_Geist to get his pieces done so we can debut the production pieces!!
Haha nah not at all, we just think the same way.
I drove at the second LAKC race. I’ll drive a few more just because the level of competition is very strong and I like the Musgraves, but there are some disadvantages for me.
As for electrification:
Replacing a LO206 at East Lansing - >8 horsepower for a 4 minute race with a 65% duty cycle - has been done, and the kart is within 10kg of the gasoline one. It’s likely that if a big power-tool manufacturer wanted to enter the market they could sell a whole ready-to-go powertrain for about $2000 that was lighter than and provided more performance than a 206.
Replacing a SSE175 at CalSpeed or Vegas - >45 horsepower for a 30 minute race with an 80% duty cycle - currently takes a battery pack with the same mass and cost as a kart chassis.
Circling back on KTM, it’s still available as an option in Race Factory’s store. Prices shown are total for the chassis and engine package.
So basically $6k for the KTM 150 with TPI and $7600 for the 250.
I bet that 250 is a beast though.
(About $2200 for the Daytona 190 four stoke, although it doesn’t state what model.)
Last I had heard, Willy was able to negotiate some engines from KTM but they were a while out.
KZ has become crazy expensive the last 5 years. Tuners are using engine dynos and stuff to gain .5 hp and people are willing to pay for that.
I remember back in 2008-2015 when the KZ was cheaper to run than the KF mostly due to the lower rev limiter and relative lack of interest. Then Verstappen changed the meta by going very early to KZ (Almost out of KF3).
Back then a KZ3 was planned, but we never heard about it again. IMHO KZ should be 17+, with OK/OKJ pushed as spec series (like the Academy Trophy).
