Official KartPulse KartKraft Throwdown Thread

w00t! Sub-30.

S1: 11.658
S2: 12.14
S3: 6.183

I spent some time last night thinking about the priority of the corners on the track, and how we generally feel compelled to push into the wrong ones. I suspect that’s indicative of a good design. I took a step back and looked at the first complex that matters, which begins with turn 4ish.

You enter this complex from the mini-straight that comes after the fast, right sweeper. You want to dive in as hard as possible, but why? You then need to make a right and then a left into the part that really matters, which is the final turn. Everything sets up, essentially, from back here. So, get it right.

In this lap, I let the rubber dictate how hard I pushed. There’s a sort of interlock between the tire/chassis and the track that you can feel in sim (and irl) when you are within this “rubber surfing” window. In it, the kart is on it’s toes, turning freely. Acceleration is fluid, there’s no power wasted as the driving is efficient. Braking is powerful, as the tires are locked into the underlying rubber. If you don’t break that interlock by braking too hard, the kart turns freely while simultaneously being highly loaded.

I used to call this the power line in KK, and I’d accidentally find pieces of it, as I figured out the turns. I’ve always been chasing a lap that was 100% in the power line, never falling off it. This one, I think, accomplished that, and it is fast. The last few tenths to Sheenu will be found here, in the width of the power line, in the rubber.

Now we grind

S1: 11.621
S2: 12.158
S3: 6.197
Nothing much different, but up a spot in the global rankings. Looking like .8 will happen.

Nice lap! Hoping your mastery of the KZ on KartKraft inspires you to get a shifter IRL.

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Oh god I wish. Not happening. I’d settle for lo206 on a race chassis these days.

Actually, I’d settle for a foot race on a race track, considering.

I was thinking that it’s a pity you can’t feel what I feel when I play kartkraft. With my setup, odd as it is, when I put the visor down, I’m gone. I’m in Griplandia, and it feels very real, in its own way.

The entire contraption shakes and moves, and does a surprisingly credible job of letting you feel, through the seat of your pants, what the kart is doing. You can feel load and the chassis as it flexes and rebounds. I don’t understand how, exactly, but I’ve gotten wheel lift IRL from the game. The frame of the rig lifting in a corner. Odd as heck. In any case, it pulls you in, and you get lost in there.

I suspect the controller, while it’s fun, doesn’t compare. And, given how you seem to enjoy the game, and are good at it, I think you’d like this with a wheel and vr.

Laps while I wait for 1pm

10 posts were split to a new topic: KartKraft - Online Multiplayer Discussion

More progress

S1: 11.544
S2: 12.158
S3: 6.149

Game sound did not record, so you can listen to me instead. I wish you could hear this one, though. Good things happen when you try to keep it quiet.

The amp road course is just for fun. It’s rough and not really driveable.
There’s a couple tracks where you can jump the fence. If they put superkarts in, who knows?

If I am not mistaken, there’s a drag strip next to GEEL as well but haven’t been able to leave track area.

Edit: I was wrong, it’s horses!

Getting back on the board as a breather…

Here’s a fast KZ lap at Geel. Its a respectable 29.97. To me, sub-30 has been the deep end of the pool, and in dropping this, I take US 1 and global 3. I did this mainly to say “Hi” to my friends in spots 1 and 2 (lest they get complacent) and to take a break from running the multiplayer beta. Oh, by the way, the lap is nuts. No idea how I got away with such hooliganism. :blush:

The Beta:
So far, its basically open practice sessions on a different track every 20 mins. You register and get told when it’s time to pop in. The sessions are timed and, of course, you want to be the fastest!
I have enjoyed this, thus far. It’s in no-contact ghost-mode, which makes for some intense races. You both stay on line since there’s no contact, obviously. Very cool.
They are onto wave 3 of beta invites, so the servers are getting more full. I’ve seen lobbies of up to 8. For the most part its 2-3 others. But, as they add more testers, it will grow.
I really like how racing against others is, as compared to against a ghost of a past lap. I have come across some fast drivers, too. I have had some really great battles, some have even worked out!
As the beta progresses, and the servers show resilience, it will grow. It is really fun so far and holds much promise.

A lot more people in lobbies now. Had 11 folks in multiple practice sessions and had no zero lobbies which would happen in KZ.
Some good racers showing up too.

Ok so what next?

Been running a lot of laps in multiplayer practice and mixing it up with TT. Starting to see lots of online races playing out on the web and getting jelly. I am feeling the need to do something with this. Need to have racing for this to have legs. But, they know that. Contemplating Iracing or something while we wait. But, it won’t be the same. Sim karts are pretty magical and I prefer em to cars.

The FFB algorithm now uses a force based calculation, rather than impulse based. This significantly increases detail and feedback through the steering system. FFB settings may need to be adjusted and can be increased relative to their previous settings. Without overhyping it, this completely changes the feel of the game. We look forward to hearing your feedback.

Increased longitudinal tyre skid volume
DirectInput no longer reacquires FFB devices when a system device change flag is set. Possible fix for periodic stutters when driving
Increased front tyre grip on MG Yellow. This pushes the balance more toward neutral. Setups will need to be adjusted and should require less scrub radius/caster/torsion bar stiffness
Fixed bug where driver would be standing in vehicle for a frame upon being connected to the kart
Fixed bug where vehicle radar would detect opponents above or below you. e.g. PFI bridge.
Fixed incorrect map loading in NTK KZ2 Minimal Time Trial
Network stats can now be made visible on the HUD via Settings->Game->Hud->Show Network Stats
Fixed bug where sessions wouldn’t refresh properly if screen remained open for hours
Added a “wrong way, turn around” notification when driver is driving backwards around track
Added pit indicator to HUD placings
Ping now draws on left side of placings in HUD
Fixed crash when restarting race
HUD adjusted to avoid overlapping elements with large numbers of racers
Disconnected players draw ping as “–” instead of “0”
Enabled onboard cameras in spectator mode
Fixed driver being detached from kart sometimes upon spawning in to map
Fixed unresponsive register button in scheduled session list
Added delta to live placings HUD widget in Online Practice

Intital testing suggests that this changes everything. Will have to tedo the tune completely. Maxing scrub and caster will likely be too much. I will also have to widen the back. Torsion bar etc comes way down too.
Turn in feels a bit off and the steering column seems to want to continue to lock at mid turn balance point. But, the ffb feels good. We shall see.

Got the issue figured out. Had to completely retune the kart. Almost opposite of before. Zero scrub radius, zero torsion bar. Caster 14-15ish, rear width .15.

Importantly, the thing Zach said that made the most difference is raising the driver to 60% from my previous 30. This completely changes how the kart reacts and the strangeness around the center of the steering (mostly) disappears.

Anyways, the FFB update, properly tuned completely rocks. You feel more from the tires it seems. Lots of information through the center column. Theres a better sense of load too, almost a seat of the pants thing going on here, if that’s possible.

A hard slog accomplished
For some reason, the new force feedback model befuddled me at Geel. I’ve been struggling to land a sub 31 there. In the past, this is one that I thought I was pretty decent at, but with the new FFB, not so much.

Earlier tonight, I made an odd change. I dropped 2 teeth from what I have been successful with to see what would happen. Something about how driving flows with the less spastic ratio reminds you to squirt your exits and really be greedy with grip and momentum. Anyways, it worked well. Surprisingly. I repeatedly nailed 31.0X, dinging three times within a few hundredths, settling at 31.002.

Then, with the different gearing, I started to play with trying to be flat through the final turn. Seemed like a dumb idea but I nailed it a few times and thought, “Aha! Perhaps this is what will get me sub 31!”. Excitedly, I proceeded to flail about and get nowhere.

Finally, after saying to myself, “Last lap!” and meaning it, I did it! Yay! Sadly, the video did not work, but here’s a pic.

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This excites me. I really struggled with this last year, I looked like I was drunk down the straights

With my current setup, it tracks dead straight. Very aim-able

Next day, It stuck

And just like that, sub-31 is no longer a big deal. First session of the day started strong and looked like last night. A bunch of 31.0X followed by a 30.9, and, with 30s left in the session, boom, 30.85.

Multiplayer is changing my driving, for the better.

The new multiplayer game mode has forced me to get out of my comfort zone a bit and keep moving from track to track. When you log in, you register for the next session, which is timed to start every twenty minutes. The sessions themselves last 15 minutes, with a 5 minute break in-between.

What’s been neat about the experience is that its forced me to get fast, fast. Just like in real life. You do not have the luxury of running endless laps. Plus, you feel a sense of urgency as everyone else is trying to set the fastest lap, too. It kind of feels like a long quali, actually.

Today was X30 NTK day since I have neglected it. Here’s a US 2 lap.

And GVKC before work… rapidly to pace and from there dropped 2 39.9x and closed with a 39.66. Boom. All in one short session. This is working, I am getting consistent.


The good laps keep rolling in. I learned something interesting trying to take the last turn flat out. I have been diving straight down into the final turn, not letting the kart carry wide as I prepare to turn down. Instead, if you let the kart naturally go a little wide as you come around/exit the bowl, you can use that “swing” effect you get from the double direction change to turning onto the straight. This allows you to hold full throttle and follow the AI rubber precisely.

Its a bit dicey, but I’ll master it. I am not sure if its faster, however. This lap isn’t an example. This is the old way.

Edit: I just did it right and wow, does it feel good. Not sure faster, though, still.
The other version should be slower as a minor throttle dip is required, however, it’s shorter travel from turn in to finish.

This new version flows beautifully, however. You bounce this turn, basically, letting the kart pull left. You then must correct right immediately, thus swinging the momentum into the final left turn. It’s full throttle all the way from several turns back. However, despite it being full throttle, it’s a rounder exit that naturally goes wider. It remains to be seen which is correct.

In general, I have found that the line that flows most logically and naturally is the best. Sometimes not, though. Not sure yet if that’s the case, here. Probably is. The rubber never lies, really.

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I jumped on today to test the new FFB per Zach’s request. The front end feels good and my overall feeling is that this feels exactly like a kart should at 95%, but when I try to drive 100% I still get the same “rear-steer” effect I’ve always struggled with in KK.

Whenever I go through a slow corner, the rear has a tendency to randomly step out at apex-exit. It doesn’t feel like a slide, it literally feels like the rear is steering the kart. It’s very odd, because the kart feels planted in medium to fast corners and it feels understeery on most corner entries. But still, load it up too much and the rear just swings around without warning. I’ve tried tuning it out and driving differently, but tuning just gives me terminal understeer and driving differently makes me slow. There must be either some setup trick or weird driving style out there that alleviates it.

Dom, maybe your full-beans-crank-the-wheel-to-max on entry style might be helping because you’re unwinding the steering sooner, where I’m trying to hold a more consistent arc like I would in real-life.

NTK track is fun though.

Hmm. I will ponder this tonight as I lap and compare notes.

As I consider this, I am not sure I still do this. I suspect I am much quieter now. When bored, take a look at a recent lap and tell me if it looks as handsy. I suspect my handsiness is situational now, and, optional, (Bobby corner I sometimes attack and sometimes take a quiet line, for example). In KZ, you have to be super quiet with inputs in KK as compared to X30 as well, and I did a ton of that since my early days.

I talked to Zach and he mentioned that you need to raise the seat to 60% now with the new build, which helps alleviate the rear-steer. Tried that and it was a fair bit better. He said that with the seat low, the kart needs a lot of input to unload the inside rear, so it ends up being unloaded later in the corner and rear-steering on exit. Makes sense, a bit like understeer producing oversteer in real life.

I got close to you and @Muskabeatz on a few tracks but didn’t give them all a go. I really want to try multiplayer next.

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Multiplayer is pretty fun. Basically like being in a qualifying session like Dom mentioned. Will be especially fun once racing becomes available!

@tjkoyen I had a different experience at first. The issue with the new build was that the karts Ackerman would “flop” at apex. The load would cause the steering to want to go to lock. It would get very light and you’d have to hold the wheel just so to prevent it from going to lock.

Rear grip hasn’t been an issue, pretty much ever. The kart feels super stable now that I have changed the driver height.

Also, scrub and torsion bar go way down. I have a couple tunes where I added .15 to the rear as well but not really necessary.

Try raising seat with ride height low to 60. Alternatively try medium ride height with 35% driver height. This helped me a lot.

Here’s a basic setup:

Torsion bar 25%
Scrub 0
Caster 13-16
Ride: low
Driver: 60% vert, 50% Lon
Rear hubs: 0-.15

It is a ton of fun, particularly f you cut track a bit to get in range of others and they are in the mood to play racecars. With no collision, it’s like racing intelligent ghosts.

This surprised me. I suspect it’s the beard.

Long story short, I just shaved 2/10 off my best here and ran my optimal. And, I did while almost crashing coming out of the back chicane. I am fairly confident this would be sub 42, were it not for that. Suffice it to say, I was surprised crossing the finish line to see 42.093 flash across the screen. I had to double check and make sure it wasn’t a 43.0!

Progression has been basically non-stop. Every day I manage to push a bit further, a bit sooner. I no longer am spending weeks running the same laps over and over, chasing small improvements. Somehow, now, I have found the confidence to let the laps happen in a short time frame. I can close things and know it, believe it. It is nice to be able to tell the little voice of doubt in your head to “Piss off, I’ve got this.”

I don’t know what’s changed that led to me feeling this capable. I think after going to OKC and seeing that I was quick, relatively, it made me confident that sim is making me grow as a driver, and that this (sim) isn’t some other, some lesser thing. The rules are a bit different but the virtual informs and shapes the real, and vice-versa.

@Stacker shared a similar story but in reverse. He spent a day at the track with some friends karting. When he got home he hopped into 4 spa lobbies and ran unusually quick consistent laps in all 4 races. So much so, it reminded him of my OKC experience.


Next day
Had another level up. Went and beat my best at GVKC in solo mode. Then, I thought I’d try against the ghost and see how I could fare under pressure. I find it’s harder in some ways to go for fast laps when you are constantly comparing how you are doing relative to the ghost.
Anyways I went sub 40 almost immediately. In the 2nd lap I dropped to 39.9 and then followed it up immediately with another 39.9. That’s a first. In 7 laps I ran 4 sub 40’s. 39.9, 39.9, 39.6 (dirty) 39.8 (dirty). That, for me, is huge progress.

I’ve been thinking about how well I have been driving and how consistently and methodically I have been able to shave time off over the past month or two.

I think it’s covid related. Wait, wait, hear me out. The big thing with driving is (to me) getting out of my own way. I have a tendency to psych myself out. (Ie: you just ran the first 10 turns beautifully… it would be a shame to mess up now…DOH!).

I think that with the anxiety and uncertainty surrounding the future, there’s not a lot of bandwidth left for self-doubt about stuff that just doesn’t matter at all. So, I am now better able to roll with it. I just don’t care anymore, in some ways. And, that is liberating, but not all that comforting. Karting has always been an escape, I just never expected to think about it like this.


Thanks for the setup Dom! Much better through the first two sectors. My third sector, specifically the last corner is not great. I can’t get it to drift and stick like you do through there. I made all my time up on you basically on the chicane onto the back straight.

There’s 2-3 tenths in the first sector for me yet. I was wide in the first three corners on that lap. 34.9 is my optimal.