Yes, I think you understood my thoughts exactly. Like you mentioned, push back bumpers wouldn’t save side pod to side pod contact. I agree it would solve “moving people”, though.
Don’t even get me started on the guys trying to hold the outside when it isn’t their corner. They are the same people that will immediately use you up when they are on the inside…
The one thing I will mention is that almost every single feature race CKNA had at Whiteland ended in Black and Checkered. Tons of penalties handed out. Honestly, I dont think it cleaned up the racing any. Ultimately, its up to the racers…
That said, I don’t run people off the track, but I’ll make the driver work hard to gain the spot by using as much track as I can.
/edit I actually meant the inverse of what you’re saying. That is, if someone is trying to pass me on the outside I’m going to use as much of the track as I reasonably can and make their work cut out for them.
I am going to disagree, if you have not cleared the other driver and push them off on exit its the fault of the kart overtaking. You can’t expect a kart to disappear and I guarantee I can sidepod someone 3 states over on a dive bomb. I will absolutely lean on someone (Ask Derek) but I absolutely won’t push someone off track.
I’m sort of torn. In rentals I do lean on folks. I don’t sidepod them off but I will force them to be narrow and will rest pods on them if I think their pass attempt is BS.
Do it right or feel me say no, physically.
(Right is open to interpretation and that makes it interesting).
Since our wheel Wells are covered I have zero hesitation about using the side of the kart.
I won’t run you off but I will try to cut your pace off by forcing a crap line which is even better.
It’s not something that’ll get fixed over a race weekend, it takes 2-3. That’s down to the series to maintain that consistency over a season. We can’t expect racers to not use their bumper if it’s not going to have a repercussion, as much as I wish we could. If there’s an advantage to be had like that, someone is going to take it. Either the officials monitor it better or the drivers are going to start policing it themselves.
Sounds like PB bumpers are a substitute for unwillingness to officiate.
I’m not a fan. Basing a penalty on the simple basis of a dropped bumper just diminishes the whole judgment aspect to a no-brainer binary call. I get that it’s intended to slip when subjected to a force that should theoretically indicate a punt, but to what level of certainty? Karting will always be a contact sport to some uncontrollable degree, just because drivers are going to get close & mistakes/misjudgments are going to happen. I can see it causing someone to hold back from trying to move up or passing for no other reason than fear of being DQed. So much for racing.
Fortunately, I can assure you that’s not the case. The racing and overtaking is as decisive as it ever was, and there is no shortage of people making big lunges for position.
It’s not black-and-white; push-back bumpers are not a substitute for officiating, and just because you have good officials doesn’t mean the push-back bumper wouldn’t help. Like I mentioned above, it’s a supplemental tool.
I raced nationally from before we had push-back bumpers, before we had full-width rear bumpers, up through when we got both. The full-width rear bumper helped keep karts from going over the top of each other, but it introduced an extra level of bumping you could do now that the wheels were covered. The driving standards in the early to mid-2010s were so poor at national series that we were having separate drivers meetings during race day to be scolded. Almost every Pro Tour race and every USPKS race, Tom or Mark would pull all the TaG guys aside and tell them we were being too aggressive. And rightfully so, people were wrecking so much stuff. How can you police 40 karts? Tom had camera systems, Mark had multiple race directors in every corner and still the racecraft sucked. The drop-down bumper fixed almost all of that stupidity overnight.
what are pushbacks meant to solve exactly? purposeful ass packing? idk if this is a dumb question but I thought id ask.
I feel like there would be a lot more people who got penalties for something not their fault than penalties that are deserved. My friend said there can be a decent bit of brake checking as well, but ive never raced pushback so I dont know.
this is all interesting stuff to me, as in club racing people tend to be a bit more polite, not always, but usually. I can think of only one time I leaned on someone on exit but normally I try to leave just enough room. Should I start being less nice?
Yeah, it’s pretty much to stop drivers from using their front bumper to move others out of the way under braking.
It’s really hard to get a pushback that you don’t deserve, you have to hit someone pretty hard to push it back so even if you’re not trying to do it on purpose you still would warrant a penalty. I had a push back penalty for every race I ran this past weekend, and while I didn’t mean to hit anyone ever, I definitely hit people hard enough that it was a warranted the penalty.
I have yet to see anyone try to brake check another driver to get them a pushback bumper. Someone has always had this concern about the bumpers, but I have never seen this happen personally. I know people who said this was an issue when they went to go race in Europe, but I haven’t seen it myself.
Yes, if someone brake checks you to push back your bumper, you now have nothing to keep you from just dumping them off track I terms of the bumper. I think we mentioned that in the original PBB thread years ago
