David Klaus from Briggs Racing - What is WRONG with karting?

On your last point, that’s what I was sorta getting at with the 206. The engine is so simple and easy to maintain that an organization could have a bunch of them and not need to worry about anything major happening to the engines. It’d be a good way to get people into the sport and the engine isn’t so overwhelming that it’ll freak people out

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Funny I was about to ping @DavinRS for us to do something along those lines.

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One thing about motocross is that you can literally never touch your bikes gearing or suspension except for a couple small settings and ride every track in your region until you’re at the very top level (which most never reach).

Karting just isnt that easy. For example, It’s taken me over 4 years of karting to finally start to zero in on a seat position that allows me to stop destroying tires in a day. And in that four years I never got a piece of advice, solicited or not, that helped lead me to where I am now. In fact, everyone I tried to discuss things with tried to steer me away from that direction.

On another note, you can’t take a kart and drive a track one weekend, then trails the next, then the dunes after that, etc. Many ride areas are no cost or a small permit and parking fee.

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Spoiler Warning - I did a similar article a few years ago: http://buildraceparty.com/kartingright-now/

I will say that I have a somewhat different view than @NikG on the internet being a helpful place. Granted, I think that there a various number of places that give out confusing information, but in my opinion that’s no different from the guy at the track giving out BS tips when he think he’s an expert. When I first started karting, I had so many people giving me ‘advice’ with no rationale on why things work, than it hurt more than it helped.

More importantly, I think that the internet just lacks a clean place that explains the basic information about karting, with easy to find links to other sites and easy to navigate.

Even the national competition bodies like the IKF have a god-awful web presence. The IKF site is the most frustrating and poorly designed site that I’ve been too, so it’s no wonder that people have a hard time find information about the sport, when the sport bodies don’t make internet web presence/design/accessibility a priority.

So I don’t really think that it’s the ‘internet’s fault’, more as most people don’t know how to implement a clear vision when they release a site on the internet, so it’s a mess and just confuses matters even more when trying to share information.

Also on the point on transitioning drivers from indoor karting to rental karting, unless is a site that easily provides that information, or competition sporting bodies have some formal organization with indoor karting within their portfolio (IE: Sport karting), you’re not likely going to see an easy transition from most indoor karters to competition karting because it lacks the formal connection.

Other than meeting someone at the indoor track who happens to own their own kart and wants to do talk about it…

This is a large part of it. Since there isn’t a large national organization than issues mandates and rules for the sport, it’s really easy for commercial groups to make a series that’s different from everyone else, say they have the best engine package for it and fragment things more.

That is why 206 has been pretty popular in this era, because at least the engine packages and the rules are the same, and you’re not dependent on an engine builder or a constantly changing ruleset like Rotax.

I know about that one, I was talking about a re-deux somewhat geared as counterpoints so some of the weaker and frankly tired (IMO) arguments that re-surfaced since David posted this…

[quote=“KartingIsLife, post:27, topic:939”]
I know about that one, I was talking about a re-deux somewhat geared as counterpoints so some of the weaker and frankly tired (IMO) arguments that re-surfaced since David posted this…[/quote]

Honestly, I’d rather just draw people here to the KP forums, and build a cleaner place for people to talk karting, rather than just another article. We’d just be talking in circles, to be honest.

I think discussions like this, and the forums, really move the needle much more, because people can see others engaging in the discourse that might make others act.

Sure, but

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Hehehe. I messaged you why. :wink:

Sidenote: Can anyone explain how the MSA is supposed to work, when relating to regulating karting? I always see threads online about people griping about it, but I don’t know what the MSA is supposed to do.

I can make another thread on this, if it’s tangential.

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It’s essentially the CIK\FIA arm in the UK

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Well…

As James says the MSA is the CIK/FIA representative in the UK. This makes them the sole governing body for all motorsport, from karting to rally to Formula 3. Admittedly they don’t cover everything (i think they don’t govern autograss or hot rod racing for example).

They maintain the rules, provide licenses to competitors and officials and provide training to officials (we call Race Directors, Clerks of the Course and Tech, Scrutineers). In karting they use the Association of British Kart Clubs to help write some of the class rules or kart specific rules and most kart clubs are part of this Association. This leads to a countrywide set of rules for classes included weights, tires, fuel, engines etc. MSA also provide the event insurance I believe.

Now this isn’t to say its all gravy, there is a lot of unhappiness with what is seen as an organisation run by old men trying to make a buck for themselves (both for the MSA and ABkC) and ruining karting with rules handed down from the CIK or inflexibility to allowing something a little different (like F100). Add on top of this tire contracts, some commercial classes (rotax, x30) being able to get put in the rule book quickly.

I think some of it is a little unfair and they are often blamed for a large fall in license numbers (it was in high 6000’s when i started and now is in the 2-3000’s i think). As a result of this there has been a bit of a split to Non-MSA or IKR (independent kart racing) but for the most part they still use MSA rules and regulations. They can also be described as a precipitator of the “karts to cars” or karting as the first step on the ladder mantra. But everyone did that in the noughties, especially with the Lewis Hamilton factor.

I probably shouldn’t have sounded like I blamed the internet, the internet is just the medium.

The point is when I first started in 1998, we went to the circuit shop (or my dad did) and he asked who they knew could help and the shop pointed us to someone who wasn’t full of BS. And that’s pretty much how we learnt. A lot of people didn’t do that and just bought a kart from someone at track and started that way.

Now people get scared away before they even buy the kart by the wealth of information. Of course its the same with other sports, lets take mountain biking. You could just go buy a mountain bike from Walmart and hit the trails and find out through experience that you need a more expensive bike but you’ll probably have a ton of fun finding out and it’ll take you a while to find out. Now with the internet you spend 30minutes looking up you need a $2500 bike or you’ll die because something will break on your walmart bike.

Another karting example, if you just went to your local track you might find they only run 3 classes (LO206, TAG, Shifter) so you walk around and the club officials say you should probably start in LO206, go talk to this dealer. He sells you a nice condition second hand outfit, you start racing. You don’t need to know how long tires last because your too slow anyway, same with seat position, gearing, any setup. You’re just having a blast.

Now compare that to the guy who googles karting, finds 5 million classes, finds he has to buy tires every weekend, finds he needs an italian made new kart because they are useless after 4 races.

My point being, the internet is good but sometimes its better to learn through experience and karting is a good example of this.

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But karting for most people should be like that. There is no reason at all a club couldn’t mandate a gearing for the LO206 class and a hard tire that doesn’t wear out. Most new karters take ages to get the point were a seat position or any setup makes any difference at all and I’m sure that applies to motocross too. I bet when I started karting (i’d have to confirm with my dad) we never touched a thing except as mandated by the rules (safety items) for at least 6 months and it was only that short because we paid someone to help us and show us the way. Did it make any difference to my enjoyment level, no. Did it mean i raced around on my own, no.

You do have a valid point on a motocross bike being used anywhere though.

I do agree that most people shouldn’t have a problem. I am kind of an anomaly. If a seats where it’s “supposed to go”, I’m a foot away from the pedals and my eyes are almost below the top of the wheel.

I’ve got every “solution” or trick in the book for advice except for move the seat. Maybe I had to pay for that one :stuck_out_tongue:

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There’s this weird misconception in karting that the manufacturers seat position is the be all and end all. Which is probably why you didn’t get the help you needed.

I think the manufacturer is generally thinking of someone between 5’5" and 5’10". If you are outside these limits you probably need to move it at somepoint.

But you have to get fast enough first for it to be worth it.

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Ugh my work kills me about this. We had a setup where Franklin Kart had one of their Merlin cadets sitting right in the viewing area, and people were always interested in it. But the new management didn’t like it, so they removed it. We used to get plenty of questions on the kart and peak some interest, but our new owner is a dick. In reality, I don’t think it’s (real) karting’s fault that there isn’t any connection between sport and competition. I believe the investors don’t understand why it’s so necessary and don’t allow it.

That’s also the cool thing about Speedway Indoor Karting. It’s run by ex-IndyCar driver/owner Sarah Fisher, so they understand the sport. They run CRG rentals and have an actual CRG (engine-less) sitting right in their lobby. I don’t know much more about it but they’re definitely off to a better start for us as kart racers than my location, or K1.

It’s not really necessary for them from the standpoint of their investment because the returns on it are pretty questionable. So they feel “protective” of their “kind” of karting ergo, business model.

On the other hand, the more racing enthusiast-type owned/run places tend to be a bit more into cross pollination. For example, up my way, MB2 raceway and Stockholm Karting Center (Which offers racing and rentals) have brochures for each other’s tracks. In Ohio, Thompson Kart Raceway also did something with a local indoor kart track.

It’s interesting because often the availability of “information” on the web is used as a counterpoint to the difficultly of getting started.

I agree totally though. People miss that we’ve moved from an information age into a curation age. Each situation for someone getting into karting (or any activity) is unique. Budget, previous experience, personal goals, time available, location (therefore classes available) etc etc all play a role in what is likely to work best for them.

The interim measure is a resource like these forums, and to some extent the articles on the main site. As a community we can help guide folks along the path that they need to get started. That can get off course too, but generally speaking most of the folks here on the forums are pretty objective, helpful and get that they need to think about what is going to work for the person answering the question.

I think an online navigator/roadmap of some kind would be fantastic and it’s something that’s been on my list of “thing’s I’d love to implement at KartPulse” for some time. A step by step program that’s based on their preferences that gives some goals\milestones along the way.

Totally doable. Not easy, not fast but doable…
All we need is a sponsor that’s smart enough to understand the value of something like this for their brand and the sport :grin: