My honest thought would be that the pinnacle of karting is whatever class is the most competitive, but the pinnacle of karts is KZ2
These days single make racing is far more exciting to watch than OK/OKJ racing. It’s purely an equipment game in the CIK stuff, and the races are a bore. You see someone like Travisanutto change equipment and he’s no longer competitive. The Iame World Finals, Rotax Grand Finals, Kartmasters GP, SKUSA Pro Tour…awesome fun to race or watch. And the quality of drivers is great; there are a number of cross-overs from CIK stuff, and they don’t all rise to the top when on equal equipment. Just like in cars, the drivers in CIK stuff aren’t necessarily better, they just have the funding to race a more expensive series and the apparent ability to forgo an education. I don’t believe there is a “pinnacle” in karting, just different ways to do it (I think of KZ is a different sport altogether).
Totally disagree on single-make being more exciting. It is without consequence. Nothing is being proven, nothing is being tested, no development. It also completely annihilates the opportunity for drivers to be professional because who’s hiring? If Travisnuttu takes a step back because the gear isn’t good, it makes the potential eventual victory even more interesting. There’s tension, there’s consequence, there’s reward.
By the way you say you like Kartmasters GP and so on. Don’t forget some of those highly talented drivers are on deals because of open chassis (i.e NOT single-make). Without them you might not be seeing the likes of Danny Keirle (who races for Jade on the Birel), Oli Hodgson (Comp Kart and formally PF team driver) and so on because they, and many others, probably wouldn’t be racing. You’d probably being seeing a lower standard of driver in my opinion. So there you’ve slightly contradicted yourself 
I don’t think Danny Keirle would have raced at Supernats either if it was purely single-make ala EasyKart. Without multi manufacturers then the sport would be bereft of talent. Where would Joe Turney be racing now without being picked up by OTK?
Where I think OK, and CIK in general went wrong was they tried to emulate Rotax, which was never going to work in a multimake environment and completely nuked the top level and I don’t think its recoverable.
For the Rotax Grand Finals, I can’t name any winners. As good as event it is for those competing, it’s somewhat forgettable. It’s beige racing.
Each to their own, but the failure with karting is stories aren’t being told.
I split the topic up as I think this is going to be an interesting one heading into the off season. (Well off season for some of us)
What constitutes a pinnace of a sport varies depending on one’s perspective I think
But this seems a little off base on the quality of the KZ grid.
KZ is a class of more experienced drivers, running against more experienced drivers… Many of which already proved their worth in OK or other non gearbox classes.
This deserves it’s own topic as well I think… But one day at a time.
Are there any stories anymore Alan? And moreso… who cares about them?
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If no one tells the stories, then no one cares.
People only care about stories, when you tell them. Otherwise, no one knows to care. It’s a chicken and egg scenario. I agree with @Alan_Dove, but also I don’t know very many people who are willing to make the investment in other people to tell their stories.
Nor do many people want to take the time to tell their own stories anymore, outside of what their race results are. Ironically, what people probably care the least about.
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On the topic of stories, media and journalism, here’s an older topic, but the discussion is still on the money…
So not to belabor the point, but what are the stories? That’s where I’m kinda stuck. I find it hard to think of many at all. (Maybe something for a brainstorm topic?).
There are some youtubers out there doing karting stuff that have gathered a following, so that’s a thing. My view (possibly skewed by my age now) is that the most interesting stories are from times before I started karting…
I think there definitely are stories there. I dug up Morcambe World Cup and that went down well. I know it was a history piece, but chatting to Mark Allen and watching what he does with the Superkart team, they have it’s a great story. A father and two sons brazing karts together and racing around the UK in these mad machines. That most definitely is a story…they don’t even realise themselves funnily enough. However with Covid + Superkarts use leather + lack of resources means I couldn’t ever do anything with it.
Just look at the layers of interest there
We have a family team literally designing and manufacturing their own race kart. They then go a different route to everyone else with 2x KZ engines instead of a traditional 250 twin. When they race… they really are racing. It means something, there’s blood sweat and tears invested.
When it comes to the short circuit stuff, well, that is less dynamic nowadays of course. I don’t think it’s wrong to say the old 100cc stuff had the most depth of interest when I was following it around the country and racing now and again. The groups were full of dynamic conversations about different engines and carb solutions. The range of chassis designs on display is astonishing too. Everyone had their own unique story about their own rebuild project. All the tuners were often viscously against each other. There was so many layers, so many stories. Just so much to talk about.
Alas though I think as karting has moved away from that culture and more into the single-make realms it’s less interesting, less dynamic. I think competitors will often, given the choice, move towards less complexity in terms of choice and thus we get single-make engine classes and homogenisation of chassis design (though thankfully that’s still open). That’s fine of course. I didn’t necessarily have to go that way, but it did.
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That’s very true. It’s expensive and there’s little or no reward for doing so nowadays.
The potential is there, I just wish the new breed of younlings would go after it proper. Nothing would make me happier than seeing a bunch of youngsters build their own kart and go smash the opposition at Supernats or something like that. How cool would that be instead of off the shelf OTK racing. What a story that would be, you’re AMERICA after all people.
I loved that story. Since you’re too humble to share it yourself… I’ll do it for you.
There’s a ton more stories like this. In America alone a visit to the first car parks Art Ingels raced at would be a good start. (i know the geography makes it an issue haha america is rather large)
I’m with you there… I’d love to do stuff like that too. But is there anything in “modern” karting?
There is opportunity for there to be. That’s what I would say in absence of many interesting stories currently. It’s why I think the history thing is important because it sparks imagination and inspires.
I think karting generally has been heavily reliant on the ‘racing ladder’ angle that its forgotten how to tell its own stories, and thus there is no audience for it any more. The only narratives being told is the “F1 driver used to do karting” stuff that’s very tiresome
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Plus a million on this. The ladder been done to death…
One exception I’ll make is F1 driver (or similar pro) who STILL does karting.
Motocross does a good job of this
Long video, but a cool story nonetheless
This. All of this. I’d love to see other people talking more about karting as sport inside of itself, with content on Youtube TBH.
I guess I wasn’t clear, when I wrote single-make, I meant engines only. The only single engine/single chassis series I know of are in 4-stroke, and I’m certainly not talking about that. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “no consequence”…watch the 2019 X30 Pro final at Iame Worlds. Plenty of CIK heavy hitters racing as if the outcome was very important. And if the outcome of a race like that helps them with their factory chassis deals, then I’d say that’s a pretty important consequence.
I’m sorry, but for me the OK/OKJ scene is just not compelling racing right now. Watching Antonelli drive away from the field and run practice laps while most of the field bangs into each other 8 seconds back just doesn’t do it for me. Watching a race to see which driver got the best engine from the factory isn’t exciting to me. I guess it’s sort of interesting to see OTK making up some ground on KR this year, but other than that, the races are a snooze.
As for Rotax GF, you couldn’t come up with Ben Cooper??
Ben raced KF here in the UK which was far more interesting for those who followed the championship closely as I did (I was at every round reporting). In fact the final round has gone down in history as the most dramatic showdown for the British Championship in history - http://www.karting1.co.uk/robert-foster-jones-2009-british-karting-champion/ . I remember that more than any of Ben’s wins. You only get THAT kind of story with full-blooded racing. The individuals involved trying to outfox each other, it got nasty, it got dramatic.
I will give you Ben though, but beyond that no one is talking about GF winners in the same way they do about Beggio, Orsini, Rossi, Fore, Ardigo etc… are they? It’s a great event for competitors, but it is forgettable from a sporting perspective. The drivers in Rotax kind of fade into history, which is odd for a class which is supposed to be ‘all about the driver’.
Watching someone beat a driver who has the best equipment though would be dramatic would it not? Is that not why we all remember Stoner’s heroics on the Ducati? Rossi’s heroics when he joined Yamaha?
The best race I saw was a mate of mine racing on a shoestring in KF (and when I saw shoe string he was 18/19 paying for his own racing with a normal job) up against a VERY wealthy guy who had top notch Gordy TMs. He would get passed up the straight at Whilton and then DIVE straight through. It was some of the best racing I’ve ever seen because you had a David vs Goliath situation. It was like that all year. Not two David vs David. That ain’t gonna be a story that rings through the ages though is it?
The reason OK isn’t compelling is because the FIA have failed spectacularly at knowing what karting is and have thus diminished it’s value and meaning. I actually agree the racing isn’t compelling because it’s been devalued so much that it may be an unrecoverable position. The FIA made a number of fatal errors.
- They didn’t understand the threat Rotax posed.
- They then tried to do 4-stroke which sowed doubt in people’s minds abuot the viability of top-level karting going forward.
- They then introduced KF which nuked everything.
- They have continued to make karting a ‘junior’ formula to cars and thus making it all but irrelevant.
- The FIA doesn’t invest in their top series in a way congruent with the idea karting is its own sport.
- Sanctioning a championship to be titled “Champions of the Future” totally undermining the top end of the sport.
- OK engines are still too complicated.
From a ‘fan’s perspective’ there’s very little to watch nowadays to be quite honest, which is a shame. The sport has become so spread out, so fragmented. I like multi-make because it fundamentally forces everyone to race each other like you get with motocross. Once you get single-make you get fragmentation and then entrenchment which means the sport no longer has the spine that forces the best drivers to race each other because the sport is structured so.
The way it is is probably inevitable.
I don’t find the OK racing that boring, less boring then i find SKUSA or Rotax. And I know why. Its because I follow the top drivers and teams on social media (but if Transvianutto posts about food again…), so I have the background story (or at least the watered down PR friendly version) so I “feel” like i have a connection with them.
Supernats I’ve only found interesting when I know someone racing, like when Broc Feeney led most of the Jnr X30, or when Transvianutto wiped the field (then got a start penalty, doh) or when Ben Cooper totally outfoxed the regulars. By the way I loved the fact Ben spent time after the race to tell the interviewer that he didn’t just turn up, that he’d be turning 1000s of laps with some front running skusa drivers round the track he works at (which is CIK level).
Like has been mentioned over and over, its the story that matters, the racing is almost immaterial. Alan’s story is the development race, my story is the person (and also the development lol). The historic stuff seems to have more of this, i think for two reasons. One is time, the stories are all out there now, no one is afraid of losing a drive or a sponsor, so we all know about this guy having a cocaine problem or this guy cheating or how this engine went on to dominate and this was the first race it was used. Second is the crowd racing a historics just don’t care about PR, so you are getting all the current stories out of them. Most now are thinking of sponsors, or careers (even if theres no hope) so portray a professional image which is a little stale. I hear the stories I want to hear through hearsay and whispers over messenging services.
Understood. I completely agree about the “ladder” aspect and how it diminishes karting as a sport unto itself. It drives me nuts seeing kids over here in the US think they need to go to cars in order to taken seriously as a sportsman. It’s really sad, because karting is WAY more competitive than formula cars over here.
Last comment on Rotax, then I’ll let it rest. The Rotax GF remains the only high level karting “worlds” for which you have to qualify. Everyone in the field is a champion in their respective country. And yes, a Rotax Champ from the UK is different from, say, Jamaica, but you still have to win something to get there. You want to race in the CIK Worlds? Just write a check.