Discuss: Europe\US ... Spec\Multi Manufacturer .. State of Karting Media and Stories

I’m with you there… I’d love to do stuff like that too. But is there anything in “modern” karting?

There is opportunity for there to be. That’s what I would say in absence of many interesting stories currently. It’s why I think the history thing is important because it sparks imagination and inspires.

I think karting generally has been heavily reliant on the ‘racing ladder’ angle that its forgotten how to tell its own stories, and thus there is no audience for it any more. The only narratives being told is the “F1 driver used to do karting” stuff that’s very tiresome

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Plus a million on this. The ladder been done to death…
One exception I’ll make is F1 driver (or similar pro) who STILL does karting.

Motocross does a good job of this

Long video, but a cool story nonetheless

This. All of this. I’d love to see other people talking more about karting as sport inside of itself, with content on Youtube TBH.

I guess I wasn’t clear, when I wrote single-make, I meant engines only. The only single engine/single chassis series I know of are in 4-stroke, and I’m certainly not talking about that. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “no consequence”…watch the 2019 X30 Pro final at Iame Worlds. Plenty of CIK heavy hitters racing as if the outcome was very important. And if the outcome of a race like that helps them with their factory chassis deals, then I’d say that’s a pretty important consequence.

I’m sorry, but for me the OK/OKJ scene is just not compelling racing right now. Watching Antonelli drive away from the field and run practice laps while most of the field bangs into each other 8 seconds back just doesn’t do it for me. Watching a race to see which driver got the best engine from the factory isn’t exciting to me. I guess it’s sort of interesting to see OTK making up some ground on KR this year, but other than that, the races are a snooze.

As for Rotax GF, you couldn’t come up with Ben Cooper??

Ben raced KF here in the UK which was far more interesting for those who followed the championship closely as I did (I was at every round reporting). In fact the final round has gone down in history as the most dramatic showdown for the British Championship in history - http://www.karting1.co.uk/robert-foster-jones-2009-british-karting-champion/ . I remember that more than any of Ben’s wins. You only get THAT kind of story with full-blooded racing. The individuals involved trying to outfox each other, it got nasty, it got dramatic.

I will give you Ben though, but beyond that no one is talking about GF winners in the same way they do about Beggio, Orsini, Rossi, Fore, Ardigo etc… are they? It’s a great event for competitors, but it is forgettable from a sporting perspective. The drivers in Rotax kind of fade into history, which is odd for a class which is supposed to be ‘all about the driver’.

Watching someone beat a driver who has the best equipment though would be dramatic would it not? Is that not why we all remember Stoner’s heroics on the Ducati? Rossi’s heroics when he joined Yamaha?

The best race I saw was a mate of mine racing on a shoestring in KF (and when I saw shoe string he was 18/19 paying for his own racing with a normal job) up against a VERY wealthy guy who had top notch Gordy TMs. He would get passed up the straight at Whilton and then DIVE straight through. It was some of the best racing I’ve ever seen because you had a David vs Goliath situation. It was like that all year. Not two David vs David. That ain’t gonna be a story that rings through the ages though is it?

The reason OK isn’t compelling is because the FIA have failed spectacularly at knowing what karting is and have thus diminished it’s value and meaning. I actually agree the racing isn’t compelling because it’s been devalued so much that it may be an unrecoverable position. The FIA made a number of fatal errors.

  1. They didn’t understand the threat Rotax posed.
  2. They then tried to do 4-stroke which sowed doubt in people’s minds abuot the viability of top-level karting going forward.
  3. They then introduced KF which nuked everything.
  4. They have continued to make karting a ‘junior’ formula to cars and thus making it all but irrelevant.
  5. The FIA doesn’t invest in their top series in a way congruent with the idea karting is its own sport.
  6. Sanctioning a championship to be titled “Champions of the Future” totally undermining the top end of the sport.
  7. OK engines are still too complicated.

From a ‘fan’s perspective’ there’s very little to watch nowadays to be quite honest, which is a shame. The sport has become so spread out, so fragmented. I like multi-make because it fundamentally forces everyone to race each other like you get with motocross. Once you get single-make you get fragmentation and then entrenchment which means the sport no longer has the spine that forces the best drivers to race each other because the sport is structured so.

The way it is is probably inevitable.

I don’t find the OK racing that boring, less boring then i find SKUSA or Rotax. And I know why. Its because I follow the top drivers and teams on social media (but if Transvianutto posts about food again…), so I have the background story (or at least the watered down PR friendly version) so I “feel” like i have a connection with them.

Supernats I’ve only found interesting when I know someone racing, like when Broc Feeney led most of the Jnr X30, or when Transvianutto wiped the field (then got a start penalty, doh) or when Ben Cooper totally outfoxed the regulars. By the way I loved the fact Ben spent time after the race to tell the interviewer that he didn’t just turn up, that he’d be turning 1000s of laps with some front running skusa drivers round the track he works at (which is CIK level).

Like has been mentioned over and over, its the story that matters, the racing is almost immaterial. Alan’s story is the development race, my story is the person (and also the development lol). The historic stuff seems to have more of this, i think for two reasons. One is time, the stories are all out there now, no one is afraid of losing a drive or a sponsor, so we all know about this guy having a cocaine problem or this guy cheating or how this engine went on to dominate and this was the first race it was used. Second is the crowd racing a historics just don’t care about PR, so you are getting all the current stories out of them. Most now are thinking of sponsors, or careers (even if theres no hope) so portray a professional image which is a little stale. I hear the stories I want to hear through hearsay and whispers over messenging services.

Understood. I completely agree about the “ladder” aspect and how it diminishes karting as a sport unto itself. It drives me nuts seeing kids over here in the US think they need to go to cars in order to taken seriously as a sportsman. It’s really sad, because karting is WAY more competitive than formula cars over here.

Last comment on Rotax, then I’ll let it rest. The Rotax GF remains the only high level karting “worlds” for which you have to qualify. Everyone in the field is a champion in their respective country. And yes, a Rotax Champ from the UK is different from, say, Jamaica, but you still have to win something to get there. You want to race in the CIK Worlds? Just write a check.

See, I would say you only get a decent person based story WHEN you have a development race. You need both some some extent.

The development race facilitates a driver to express themselves in a ‘fuller’ fashion. Like we (well most of us) all love Rossi, but it was when he moved to Yamaha, took that risk, that his story had ‘jeopardy’. That extra flavour. We (again most of us, some already knew obv) only learnt how insanely good Casey Stoner was when he jumped on a bike that was a beast to ride and won the championship.

But like I referred to karting just isn’t geared up for this kind of thing on a mass scale. We are a competitors based sport, not a spectator based one. Only a few of us are watching big events through mere interest. Most (99%) who actually spectate are family and friends.

In proper single-make racing, a driver has no value. No one is watching (not in karting certainly), no one is selling anything. That means a driver has no value other than someone to sell to.

Honestly, I’m shocked that there aren’t more people talking about karting as an lifestyle activity, especially as a way to attract more car enthusiasts who want to get more seat time at the track.

Granted, most car enthusiasts will see events like Gridlife as a way to get additional seat time with friends, but there are so many people who don’t have the budget to build a GLTC car, or don’t realize the limited seat time in a Time Attack series, that could get tons of seat time in karting.

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That’s all I’m in it for, some “low cost” safe fun. That and my wife approves of this over stage rally - something about going as fast as you can on a narrow dirt road through a forest she doesn’t agree with. Ha!

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Car racing benefits from having a general culture that surrounds it. With car racing the average joe can understand immediately. Bikes is very similar whether it be moto or road racing. They are more readily identifiable with.

Karting culture, its language, is kinda more obscure. It explains why the racing ladder stuff is always the forefront of promotion because it’s the only thing you can easily explain to someone. “Oh we’re the first step on the ladder to F1” - normal people can digest that. What’s harder is sleeping the a van and getting rained on by the condensation in the middle of a quarry in Cumbria.

I hear what you’re saying, Alan, but I also don’t think that people don’t even really try to make the connection regularly. (At least from a driver enthusiast option, as a way to get additional seat time some how.)

most karters are lifestyle karters, I’d imagine. I am fully aware that I am going nowhere with this sport but I identify through it and it provides a framework to hang my daily life and responsibilities on.
I’d like to git gud, but that’s almost secondary to just enjoying the challenge of a season.

I don’t really have any heros like you guys do, however. While I deeply admire all the pro racers, it feels like a secret world almost. In general karting is a well kept secret. Perhaps there was a golden era that I missed.

A fine quote and reminded me of a tent with 5 young men sleeping in it at a race weekend last year. Looking at that I felt like I had missed something important in karting, starting at 45. The days of roughing it are long gone, but I wish I had those karting memories.

Ah, what I mean is using karting as an different method to attract grassroots car racers into the sport, as a way to get get additional seat time, rather than a replacement of their primarily means of competition.

Largely, when car racers get introduced to karting, they feel like people are trying to take them away from car racing to come karting, rather than something they can use to practice more, etc.

The number of grassroots car racers, who race SCCA/NASA etc, who have no idea that karting is a sport they can do, outside of autocross blows my mind. Honestly, I’m also shocked that no karting organizations has tried to align with those groups to help augment events.

Understood. Thx for clarification

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Isn’t part of the problem that once folks kart, they realized the relative value of it and slowly gravitate away from cars, assuming they have no ambition to be a pro driver irl?

Personally, I started by attending 4 driving schools and then deciding that there was no way I’d be able to spend car money on a regular basis. I wasn’t interested in a few times a year, more like a few times a month!

In your case, you began autocross and gravitated towards karts. Do you still auto-x or has that been put aside for the karts? It appears to be cannibalistic, both ways. Folks seem to go either or.

But that wasn’t how I was approached. I determined the value proposition on my own, when it came to the amount of seat time.

Most of the time, karters come to car racers and say “Don’t race cars. Come race karts instead.”, so then the car racer feels like they have to abandon all of their car equipment/experience to do a new thing, and so they’re not interested.

When I talk to car racers I say “Race karts too, so you can race your car faster.”, explaining how a competition kart can be used a training tool, to augment their race car seat time.

If they happen to realize that they’re having more fun karting, and racing a lot more, that’s just a happy accident. :wink: