Hairpin turn in low hp kart

There’s a very good article at Wikipedia on slip angle. As I read it, and I’m not great at these technical things, there’s always some slip versus the angle wheel is turned. One of the definitions they cite is (slip slide) I’ve always thought that was why rubber gets laid down in the turns. The faster, the harder, the turn, the more rubber that gets laid down. But I’m no expert on it for sure. And of course, Wikipedia is said to have made some mistakes at times.

Sticky. (New Castle summernats 2018 I think)

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Masters worst nightmare :smiley:

Indeed. I love getting X-rays.

Doc: you know you have broken ribs right?

Me: I’m a trapeze artist.

Alright, seems I got a basic understanding of it, but there is much more to think about. I will check some more articles including Wikipedia.

Oh and by the way, I love that picture Dom :joy:

11 posts were split to a new topic: [Video] Slip Angles

Going to track in 30mins. I will report back after session :checkered_flag:

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Sweet. May your lines be fluid and fast.

Not happy. Nothing much too add or take away. Best time 51.052 (L10), worst time 52.762 (L9).

Not usually trying to find excuses, but it is truth this was the first time driving during the night. I was also laying in bed entire last week, I was sick. First real thing besides 30min walk was this session so that probably did not help either.

On a positive note, I was very surprised about the track condition at night and found many fast drivers in the sessions before and after mine but no one raced with me, I was alone. It was so sticky and the kart loved it.

I felt pretty lost in the first three corners, I was driving the sequence differently almost all the time, different braking points, different lines. I couldn´t get used to one line, not sure why. If you could help me with the line here and some braking points, that would be great. Just an idea or two would clear my mind of stupid things like braking in the middle of corner and going too wide on the exit. Don´t know why I tried this to be honest.

Hairpin was great, your advices helped a lot and I got a pretty good line most of the time, thank you. :smiley:

Here is the main problem. Section of turns from T8 to finish line.

This section was terrible. Turn 8 was okay on the first glance but on the 9 I was carrying to much speed and I either broke before or just bumped right at the apex which costed me time either way. Where things got really messy is turn 10. I still had too much speed so brake was needed once again. The kart was pretty unstable and understeered even with the slight brake pressure applied. I really felt like losing time.

I was watching a faster guy, session before me and he was so smooth all the way around the track, incredibly constant.

Turns 11,12 and 13 were almost perfect and as track was in very good condition, there was no tyre screaming and I had a very good exit to the straight, very nice improvement. What I am not sure is, is that good line through last 3 corners produced by braking on T10? Or is it just me getting it right this time and not making the same mistakes? What do you think?

I know I am boring and I am really sorry about all the posts about things not related to the topic tittle but I am just trying to figure these karts out and stop struggling on such simple things. Again, I am not expecting you to solve the mystery of my bad driving, but just give me some thoughts :smile:

Still working on that GoPro, will probably buy some 4k camera soon :confused:

Are you accelerating between 8 and 9 or is it constant throttle? Sounds like you are saying that as you go through 8 it’s ok but then 9 starts to fall apart and thus 10 is a mess?

Sounds like you are pushing too hard into 9

Hard to say. Sounds likely that rushing 9 causes you to have to brake harder into 10. But you seem to have found a good exit from there.

What happens if you try less hard to go fast from 8 to 9? Take the turn in just as fast but maybe try to just maintain that speed as you set up for 9? Just to see what giving yourself an extra split second to get the kart where you need it nice without it being a mad dash.

I bet if you figure out the 8-9 transition the 9-10 fixes itself.

I could be wrong but while the cooler air = more grunt doesn’t the cooler air also mean cooler tarmac? I’ve only done 1 night race and grip wasn’t as good as day.

Is a datalogger in your budget? Of course you’ll have to work with the track on mounting it… but if you’ve reached a plateau it might be time.

A helmet camera is a good form of datalogger too if permitted.

Night is lower grip yes?

So this complex has not been a problem in the past? And, it looks pretty standard. Fast right sweeper into a big standard turn that you probably normally do well in.

This may be just you being sick, tired, and to be honest we threw a lot at you. Basically you have been drinking from a firehose! It seems to me that you did well in the closing sequence.

It’s possible that this particular complex is not really a problem, that trying new things has thrown you off a bit. That should resolve itself as your timing etc starts to come together. But yeah, if you are mid corner braking, that’s no good.

Are you making more speed into 1 from better launch off last complex? More speed down line. That could throw your timing off into 1.

Agree with Dom. I think you are trying too much at once. Our brains are not programmed to learn everything at once. You say that the hairpin went well, first mission accomplished! I think you should be pleased with that and proud with yourself. Ok, now try corner sequence 9-10-11. Get that right, then try corner 1-2-3. Good luck!

Well, I tend to slow down just enough to make the 8 and then for some reason, I try to accelerate to the 9 and 10. I think it is a habit that is here from the beginning as I used to brake much less and then “drift” into corner, with controlled oversteer that slowed the kart down quite a bit. Back then, I thought it was the best way to take the corner. So now when I brake nicely and take good line I see some space and my mind says “Go!” and instead of being patient, seems I just add more throttle.
So I guess, I need to do some work and do what looks pretty obvious to me, change the speed, make it constant or at least with less acceleration.

About the night grip. From yesterdays experience and many other factors, I concluded the night is the absolute best time for driving here. As I already heard, many people come here at the night, including fastest drivers because the t° is lower so tyres work better, air is less dense so engine works better (No facts to back this up, that is what I was told from the people working there). Also, when Top 25/50 qualification starts, there are sessions only for us, who try to qualify and they are booked every day from 21-22h (9-10PM). So this is only to this track and karts related at the moment as I am not sure how stronger karts react to this.

That mid corner braking was just bad idea, testing the line I used to drive long ago. I would barely brake into T1 and then smash the brake into T2. I was curious about the grip levels so I guess that is where this dumb idea came from once again. I will try to find normal line and brake constantly at the same spot, always messes me up when I am like where do I brake now as turn just tends to be taken flat out.

Thanks Matt, I will try that, I think I could work that last part nicely!

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Maybe try to maintain speed between 8 and 9 then accelerate out through 10. The difference into 10 accidentally slowed you down such that you got a better result 10-1?

That’s slow. Hooking up the turn will be faster. Speed in doesn’t matter, speed out does. You need to take 10 well to hook up the final complex.

Just keep plugging here. My suggestion is that you think about “subtracting” stuff rather than adding. Instead of trying to go harder through the turn, see what you can subtract and wether that calms thing down and is faster.

Start by playing with your acceleration between 8-10. Brake, turn in, constant throttle between 8-9. Hook it up and slowly feed into 10 if possible, otherwise maintain speed, nail 10. Play with this area.

Another possibility: Accel through 8 then lift, turn, go (hard gas). The lift right before 9 should help rotate. I doubt this will be fastest but maybe will help you get the timing right.

@Stacker lemme elaborate a bit. It’s likely not an issue but it’s worth keeping in mind as you get quicker here.

This complex reminds me a bit of a section of AMP. There’s a very fast bit that goes into a massive braking double apex with a chicane out. The chicane then feeds into a short straight followed by a high speed right sweeper. That right sweeper feeds into another even faster right sweeper into another fast straight into final corner.

In other words, holy crap there’s a lot to get right here.

In any case, I did nail this perfectly the other night. Somehow I got totally hooked up from the moment I touched the throttle after the braking zone of the first bit.

What came of this was speed. A lot of it. And as such I totally overshot the 2nd sweeper. It came too soon.

There’s a movie that’s playing in your head as you go around the track. You are driving the track and simultaneously serially processing your actual position in space and time relative to your expected position based on what you have become accustomed to.

When you start making changes all this gets thrown off and you feel weird. Push through it. Brain will adjust.

If you think about it a 1 mph difference from turn 10 all the way to 1 probably changes your timing more than you’d expect. Just a guess though.

You are thinking the same way as I do, the idea I have in mind for next run. I think the idea of slowing down more at that last part T8 amd T9 is correct and I will make sure not to go too fast before the last 3 turns.

Talking about that extra speed I carry into turn 1 as a result of better line, I think it is truth. The whole track seems out of sync in my head. I guess you are right, it will take some time to get used to the possible changes I made, but I think the result of the last run was very promising. Yesterday, I was only .5s slower than a guy who is in top 10 right now (he drove session before me). And in addition to that, I made a lot of mistakes and I did not connect a single clear lap plus the line was not perfect as well. I just feel I need more seat time. How often do you go to the track?