Hairpin turn in low hp kart

Yay! We made it!

DL means download

Yeah, sorry, obvious :man_facepalming:

This is a very diplomatic way of saying ā€œoh really, old man, we shall see about that.ā€

Hehe something like that. On a real note though, I really want to se how quick can you adapt to different game while having a direct drive wheel. And of course posting top 5 time in both usa and global on KK indicating a lot of skill and dedication to what you do. Not someone to underestimate :smile:

By the way, I am thinking of buying some better wheel for next year because I am tired of driving on this semi-broken one with no FFB and no calibration. Do you have anything in mind for something around 100-150€? What did you use before DD?

I don’t have a DD (I wish, they are $1000 or more).

I have a fanatec clubsport v2.5. This is about as good as you can get for a belt driven wheel.

What you want to find is a Logitech or thrustmaster wheel, used. That would fall into your budget in usa. I don’t know what the secondary market in Eastern Europe looks like (not to mention your VAT).

Lemme ask around to see what the ideal wheel for your budget is.

Our pal Warren got a DD and really likes it. My friend tanguy just bought one as well so I am angling for an invite.

Oh sorry, I assumed you had one only by looking at the setup.

From what I heard Logitech G29 and Thrustmaster T150 are solid options. I will check if there are any solid used wheels, I might find something out.

About DD ones, I heard they really help correcting oversteer and generally give much better information to driver. If you find yourself in a position to get one, that is a thing to do.

Indeed! Those are both good options.

Btw I have something for you on that turn you suggested. Will post later.

Assuming this is new footage… @Stacker Latest vid: 48.7 (and .8 and .9).

See how this works? 48.x is your new ā€œmust haveā€ and you’ll get it (conditions dependent) every time. At first it won’t be 48s every lap. But you’ll see more and more of them until it becomes your baseline expectation.

It looks like you are loading up entry to 8 and tire seems happier. It looked like you were leaning into it a bit more. I like this.

It looks like you are also messing about with switchback and that looked like it was moving in the right direction. I like this too.

It’s almost time for you to start trying to get rid of the multi-lifts and figuring out how to time it such that one lift between 9 and 10 works. The on-off speed reduction is a bad idea in that it a) moves weight around and thus makes turning tricky and b)lifting slows you down. If you lift, your objective is rotation only, not speed reduction per se.

Looking good. Maybe low 48s soon.

Can you draw me your current line from 7-13. I will try to illustrate lift timing as I suspect it would go, possibly.

Lap 6? Was interesting. You had gotten your first 48.x of the session and started overdriving to go faster. You were carrying too much speed and running wide a lot.

In lap 6, you backed off initially and your 1-3 was way better. You moderated yourself. I was happy to see you try backing off a bit.

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Well, relatively. Still qualification period, I just did not made it public until now. But yeah, newer footage.

As far as I remember, the conditions were very good, so less steering could be very effectively used. That is what helped me very much in 8!

Removing those is exactly what lowered my S1 time for almost half a second (I mean at that fastest 48.5). I learned how to do it more effectively and to lose less speed. I will go once more to the track this year, most likely, and I am really excited to see how does it feel without weight! How do these lifts feel with no weight could be more or less effective.

Here is the line I would drive now:


In real situation, transition from 9-10 isn“t as sharp, much rounder I think, that is only correction.

Exactly. Considering this was 14th of September, this is the point where I think I started improving in all aspects, and started doing that constantly. As this was my first session with 48.x I really analyzed this well and started repeating some things quite often. I think this was crucial to that overall improvement.

This is just a guess. And, ideally you don’t want to lift at all. If you can get the kart around with partial throttle reduction followed by squeezing it back in, that’s even better, generally.

I could see a lift to turn before 9 as you come out of 8 to rotate. I could see a lift either at the bottom of the 9-10 (as illustrated) or possibly move the lift up slightly to be before 10 rather than in the middle. That would be a lift, turn, lift turn, probably. The second lift may or may not be needed or maybe just partial.

But, it’s this area, 8-12, where you introduce extraneous footwork. I’m not entirely sure where the little rotational pauses will be exactly. This is sort of a general guess. I see you doing multiple pedal inputs usually in between 9-10. Try to have just 1.

Looking at this…The bottom lift is more of a tempo thing than a rotation thing and maybe it’s just a mild throttle reduction before feeding it in up on way to 10 apex. Not sure but this is where you seem to lift most and it’s mainly for speed reduction?

Edit: specifically I see you pedaling furiously between 9-10, when you are trying to moderate speed for the upcoming 10 turn in.

So, think about the 9-10 piece. Is it a pause just prior to the bottom turn between 9-10 followed by squeeze in throttle through 10, quick rotational lift into 11?

Or, is It constant/mildly increasing throttle from 9 exit, hold the bottom turn with no lift, and lift only to rotate 11?

Or, something else?

I don’t know. But, mess around with variations until you find the one that flows rythmically and allows you to drive through the complex as balanced and powerfully as you can.

If I remember correctly, I am lifting during the right apex at 8 and maybe one lift during left apex at 9. I do quick lift-gas-lift-gas to remove understeer and to keep my speed as constant as possible through 8 as it is very hard to do like 50-70% gas as pedal is overly sensitive on most karts. That would be ideal, as you mentioned. Now to turn 9. I think this is giving me a headache. I maintain the 8 but I floor out of the 9. I am fine, I don“t understeer or anyhow lose control/speed but it makes a problem into 10. Maybe I should lift somewhere around where you mentioned just to keep the kart stable and maintain the approach speed. Now that problem that I just mentioned is too much speed into 10. Always too much speed. I lift somewhere around here, like most of us do.
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I will go backwards around the track on both video and in my head, and try to find a logical way to go through this the track with least speed loss. But it will mostly come to this section. I got like 4 months, I should figure it out by that time hehe.

You are right, biggest lift is at 10 (better said before 10). Comes to what I just mentioned, too much speed. Really unsure how to go through the section 10-11-12. Although I drive it fairly well, I never know exactly what should be the right line (remember seeing me doing a very tight line and sometimes very wide). I do know that for, let“s say, turns 1-3. The problem that I will try to solve is when to power out and what is the actual perfect line through the section. After I figure that out,I should realize do I need more or less speed into 10 and I can correct that quite easily I believe. Until then, I don“t even know when should I lift and how much into 10. For now, I lift around that 100.00m mark on the picture and it is mainly for speed reduction.

I would classify all of this under this section :grimacing: I basically know what I am doing but not sure if it is the best thing to do. Although it most certainly does not look like the best thing that can be done as I am 0.7s of the track record, so there is margin to the top. By the way, the guy working there, set something like 47.9s…I am really stunned lol. No idea what is he doing but it works…

A word about sim. I experienced something very interesting driving Raceroom these days. After about 2 months of not driving, I was alright but very insecure and I really pushed to hard into corners. Then I started being very careful through the corners themselves and I was lifting very often, considering I returned immediately and I was driving with no assists except factory ABS. Just a few days ago, something clicked and I started to flow the tracks I was driving. Very little lifting and those lifts were timed to perfection. This is very similar I think to what I do on the track in a kart. I tend to push too hard and then work on reducing that push and to control it. But I adapt much quicker in sim in comparing to kart. Looks like seat time does do the job in both cases. But unlimited seat time leads to perfection I guess :confused:

That’s the cool thing about sim, the ability to repeat things over and over.

I would caution you that it’s real easy to get sloppy in sim and reinforce bad things.

I’m like you in that I overdrive and then reign it in. I wish I had some wisdom for you about not doing that. I suspect it’s probably easier and faster to start slow and thoughtfully work your way to fast than to just send it and work backwards.

The flow on track versus in sim: it’s the same. I think that working on your tempo and the like in sim is directly applicable to IRL kart.

I’ll review the lift bit tonight.

Ok. I am not sure about anything and you are the pilot so take all this as it’s intended… food for thought. It’s probably incorrect since it’s me imagining this complex from what I have seen of you doing it.

I have no idea how it ā€œfeelsā€ to lean into a turn on your track. I have no idea how your tires and chassis behave.

I can only imagine what I would try to do there based on what I have seen you do.

I would imagine I’d approach this the same as you. Left edge but swing it in from 7.

I would be getting back on gas immediately at turn in and attempt to throttle through 8.
I’d likely then likely have to lift either partially or totally to rotate 9. Again, back on and accel through apex and out to 10.

Carrying throttle to the bottom, assuming I can turn the kart up into 10 without a lift, I’d do so and again try to accelerate up though 10. A quick lift (after 10 before 11) rotate, acceleration through the rest all the way out.

If that bottom turn between 9-10 isn’t able to be carried with throttle, maybe there is a lift or reduction as you come to the ā€œapexā€ of the bottom turn which would allow you to turn up and through 10.
In this case I’d think that likely a post 10 lift would be necessary to get around for 11. That or maybe you can ā€œbumpā€ the kart around a bit on the exit kerb you described.

I think your line through all this is fine. It’s just tempo and timing. Just try to find where the lifts don’t hinder accelerating through a turn.

Then, when you find where the lifts do work for you, then try to lift less until the lifts disappear into the proper footwork. That will come as the transitions start becoming fluid.

Bummer we can’t sim your track. We’d get this figured out pretty quick through trial and error.

That swing before 8 is pretty obvious thing I should start doing. Check :heavy_check_mark:

Completely agree with you on this. I need to find a right approach to practice and eventually fix this on track. It all came up to being too fast or too slow, never the right amount or timed well. I was not successful in balancing that out, so that is a homework to be done every time I get a chance to test it out…

…while I am at homework, replying after 3 days is a sign. Sign that I got no time these days to even think about this and I feel so bad. I would like to at least check in here everyday, to see what is up, for like 30mins. Watch few videos, keep my memory fresh, but it is not working :neutral_face: Gonna see what and how much can I do from here these days. And at the end, sim racing is a bit abandoned for now, my wheel just decided to have (how could you call this) a free path, or like certain angle while turning left where it just does not turn in game. Like 10-15° turning left does nothing. It was a problem that was sticking with it from the very beginning but recently it is becoming worse. Not sure anything can be done.

So a bit of a mess right now but it should all come together very soon. I will probably be on track in the following weeks after I buy some back protection as I get some bruises down my back as a result of having 65kg :grin: So yeah, I might not be here in until next week. Hopefully sooner!

Gotcha. Study hard! :man_student:t2:

Just to wrap this up. Been a great year, learnt quite a lot. Got into the sport more seriously. Just driven my last session this year. Actually 3 sessions. No camera, just having fun. Last lap, last session, purple 49.806s, only lap in 3 sessions under 50s. Actually a great result overall, considering these were just a regular rentals, and with no weight added. So ended the year in a great way. How about you guys? Did you end this year or you have more activities planned? I know this is not the thread for that, but hey, why not end this with sharing the last moments this year.

Good job this year with the competition. Was that your first year? If so, you knocked it out of the park!

I suspect that the race series, if you get the opportunity, will be enriched by your presence.

TT is really great for learning how to drive fast, very technical stuff. Racing is way, way better (and less neurotic). Hopefully you can do both.

I am done for the winter. No kart opportunities other than indoor electric, and, sadly, no league.

So, sim it is. Surprise, surprise. Looking to finalize sub 56 at PFI and move on to something else. Good job on your laps in less ideal condition and kart. Next year you will be even faster.

I am guessing winters in Serbia are brutal.

Yes, my first serious year. Last year, I had like 5-6 sessions, just because I liked karting, it was fun. So I decided to take a next step this year and I think I did. I will most definitely drive for the series. I also have a very nice thing to add. Next year plan is the amateur racing league under amateur club, call it that way. It is not a legit club, but they rather organize everything and are trying to popularize the sport. It is a long way, but I play to participate, in season 2021 in another series, in other town. Now, why? Well…they give a racing kart to the winner of the 11-race league, also driven on the same rentals, just other track. So this is what will be my aim next year, to get good and to learn as much as possible so I can aim for that racing kart in some of the upcoming years. Generally, learning to race really. I did not know for that prize, and it seems the championship is, in some way, a qualifier for ā€œsport karting levelā€. So yeah. Just as you said, something very different for the upcoming year and some long term plans.

I donĀ“t know, electric karts never sounded good to me. It sounds fake. Not by the engine ā€œsoundā€, but with that ā€œelectricā€ in itĀ“s name. I donĀ“t know, maybe you should try. But to me at least, it looks fake. Not sure really.

I have some news with the sim. I have been invited to BRL (Balkan raceroom league). Now this might sounds silly but they actually compete, they have a group of around 70-90 people from Balkans and are taking raceroom very seriously! They have competitions all year long and considering it“s black Friday soon, I might buy entire raceroom on sale, so I can compete (BRL races on different cars and Europe tracks that are locked) there and choose raceroom as my sim that I will practice on. What do you think, is it worth 50$? Or should I invest that somehow in karting next year? Yeah, every dollar kind of matters here, so that is why I am asking you, guessing you have more sim experience than me.

Well, not really. It can be very cold, like -20, -25 °C, but only every few years. Usually around -10 or -15 lowest. :gloves::scarf::grimacing:

Truth. That you did. How did you do relative to what you dreamed was possible or hoped for?

You have some really interesting stuff opening up and that series racing for a kart sounds really cool. I am guessing the elbows will get sharper but you are a badass karter so you got this, maybe. :sunglasses:

The race room league sounds like you should do that. Learn race craft. Make dumb mistakes. Have fun. This will, in my opinion, be money well spent.

I think most folks who don’t sim don’t understand how this carries over. It does, assuming you treat sim as a learning tool as well as ā€œfunā€. So go for it. Maybe there’s an alien in ya waiting to come out.

Thanks for sharing and keep us posted! Can’t wait to see you race again.

Well, I am pretty happy with how I performed. Now, when I look at my driving after 2 months, I see that what I did was solid. Considering I had zero racing experience. I think it is time to learn a new thing next year. How to actually use my speed that I have in a race. Sounds very interesting to me.

Truth that, things kind of open up a bit, so yeah, next season I will be doing that most definitely. Elbows out and lets go :laughing:
By the way, I got the Raceroom for only 25$, entire game. It usually costs around 75$ but Black Friday and selling old account of some ancient game got it down to around 25$ of real expense. I am incredibly happy with the game, it has so much to offer. So many cars, tracks and I can now participate in the league I was talking about. I am actually 6th (out of 28 drivers) in the standings after first weekend, so I am also very happy with that as well! You were completely right, it was worth it! By the way, another reply after 6d…yeah…a bit rough schedule you could call it…