Al, in indoor Rental places they have permanent stations similar to full size tesla charger. The karts are kept on the chargers between heats. The battery packs appear to be similar in size to what @hallkbrdz was assembling. They also appear to put the batteries sort of where sidepods are.
1 Like
@AaronT- I’m late to the party, but feel compelled to weigh in…This makes me question whether or not you’re actually human. Engine noise, and by association exhaust noise, is THE best part of an internal combustion engine. Period.
Karting for many of us is a labor of love.
Can we outfit the equipment to be lower maintenance? Maybe, but how many of us actually love the process of tinkering on the weekdays after work to prepare for a race day? Or staying late at the track on Friday to ensure everything is perfect for race day?
What about performance? What about power? Sure, there is more to be had out there. There is always more to be had! But I think many of us get fired up (see what I did there 
) to squeeze every last drop out of a given rulebook, because finding the marginal gains is what is most rewarding.
To @Bill’s point, think about the romanticism of hearing a race track in the distance. I’m lucky enough to live within a mile of a small paved oval, and the first time that I hear cars on track every year makes me grin from ear to ear. Hearing the sound of Late Models getting after it at 10:00pm on Saturday night will never get old. Think about walking up to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway on Carb Day to the sound of nothing but tire noise and a faint high-pitched whine. I have a tough time imagining a world where I’m watching a Sprint Car race and the field is entirely electric. I try to carry a progressive mindset, but this is the one issue that I foresee clinging onto until the grave. Racing is a sensory experience, whether as a participant, or as a spectator. Remove sound (in the form of engine noise), and the overall experience is diminished. No matter what.
2 Likes
As a driver while I’d like to have my kart go brrrrrrrr I will still drive a kart that goes Eeeeeeeee.
I think it’s rather likely that motorsports will continue to exist if electric. Presumably we would switch to more hybrid in car racing, first. Over time who knows what we get.
I’d rather be optimistic about this than pronounce racing dead for lack of braaaaaap. I certainly wouldn’t stop just because E-Kart. But, in its current form, it’s unclear to me how owner E-karting would work. I am concerned that it will make independent (non-team) Karting a challenge. There’s likely a steep initial investment in rapid charge tech that would be out of budget for most individuals.
1 Like
Some great electric kart stuff to get your teeth stuck into here: https://forums.kartpulse.com/tags/electric_karts
The power requirements for a typical kart race are pretty significant… makes you appreciate how energy dense fuels are.
Wet nitrous would do the trick. I have one of these ECU’s and I’m considering using it on one of the 460cc engines I have… Nitrous Control | Speeduino Manual
Al, a good quality US-designed water-cooled permanent magnet AC electric motor that can produce 15 HP continuously, and makes 30 ft lbs of torque weighs 13 lbs. A Chineasium air-cooled one, about 47 lbs. In addition to that you also need one or more batteries, a controller/inverter that turns the DC battery voltage into 3-phase AC, and a battery management to ensure that everything is operating safely. So yes, more weight. Plus the off-kart charger.
None of it is cheap initially either, roughly 2.5 - 3 times the cost for the running gear compared to a 2-stroke. And yes charging is a pain, especially in the US with our commonly available (or not at tracks) low-current 120vac system. But like anything EV, the win is in the long term operating costs. Given normal kart seasons and practices, current lithium-ion batteries should be race-worthy for about 10 years. The only wear parts are the two outer bearings in the motor, normally designed for thousands of operating hours. Electricity costs are CHEAP. To charge my 5.5kWh battery from “empty” to full at 9.8 cents/kWh (about 5kWh), with losses, is about $0.64. Commercial rate would be about 20-30% lower. Not much compared to C12 fuel, plus racing oil costs.
Where I see EV kart acceptance first is with kid karts, and then kadet. They can use the smaller, less expensive motors, need much smaller and less expensive batteries to drive them, and smaller controller/inverters.
I have nothing against hydrocarbon engines, I even work for an O&G company. There is absolutely no comparison in the energy density of hydrocarbons to today’s batteries, and I doubt there ever will be. And while I didn’t care about getting a face of oily smoke exhaust in the pits, I didn’t mind the sound and vibration that much. But after a first year of dealing with a temperamental Honda 2-stroke, and listening to some of the comments from parents with small kids about the same (smoke), I tried to push higher HP low-stressed cleaner running 4-stroke engines as a lower-maintenance step up from 206. Something in-between the 206 and 2Ts. Our karting club would hear nothing of it. So I decided if I was going to spend the money, I might as well make something as fast and fun as I possibly could, as well as low maintenance. Something I could just show up with, turn on, and go. Something that is reliable and smooth running. I’m not getting any younger (54) and I don’t really care about pure competition or points. I just want to have fun pulling Gs, and learn (a lot) about EVs at the same time.
My parts costs (no labor) for my continuous 46 Hp, 89 ft lb motor, controller/inverter, BMS, battery (1), cabling, display, etc is a little over $7k. It is designed to go up against TAG karts for a practice, qualifier, then recharge. Then the heat race, quick charge, and the main. A second/third battery would be nice to avoid having to bring a 240v generator to recharge in 45 minutes, at about $1900 extra each. But this is the “high” end, at least with today’s technology. At this point I’m waiting on the motor (delayed in production 6 months due to the wuhan flu, of course). Going crazy waiting…
2 Likes
Haha, why should I waste time convincing you of anything?
I like going fast more than I care about making brappy noises. If you would quit going fast in the absence of brappy noise that’s not my concern.
1 Like
Anything non-ethanol, not super picky where I get it from. . . .
Ok yeah this got a bit off-topic. 
1 Like
The meme was more just for effect…
If speed is really a top priority then maybe road racing (long track) would be worth checking out. Someone on here is in the middle of a twin KZ build that I’m sure will be QUITE fast.
I’d be all for something like LO206 switching over to electric, but the faster categories need to brap.
I think you should do the math on this!
I don’t understand what you are saying. Those are the manufacture’s tested specifications. These motors aren’t anything like your garden variety $200 AC induction motors that only make a couple HP for the same weight.
The math; RPM X torque / 5252.1 = HP. You can’t calculate HP using your numbers. If you are turning 2620 RPM, producing 30 foot-pounds of torque, you would be making 15 HP. At any other RPM, with 30 foot-pounds of torque, the HP would be different.
When I see somebody fabricating numbers, to prove their point, it leaves meIn an doubting the rest of their conclusions, regardless of how well the article is written.
Are we discussing or arguing? That comes off pretty harsh, Al. As I read it, it’s dismissive of his knowledge which has been rather well documented in his build post. I am not sure if it’s your intent.
3 Likes
Al, I think what Bryan is referring to when he says 15hp continuously is that the motor can sustain producing 15hp without overheating. Typically you’ll have a peak power the motor can only sustain for a specific time duration and then another rating the motor can operate ‘continuously’. Not that the HP curve is flat as you’re interpreting it. Bryan can correct me if I’m wrong.
1 Like
Al, I agree completely for combustion engines, but not for electric motors. Max torque on an electric motor is at/near 0 RPM, and then constant until field weakening starts. HP starts at 0 and climbs steadily until you start hitting that same limit. Generally any PM electic motor chart curve will be the same, only with the RPM range changing.
Kyle, you are correct - continuous rating is what it can make continuously without overheating. Peak (or max) ratings are higher, for some time limit. For the small Hawk20 motor the max power is 25 HP!
For example:
3 Likes
Lemme see if I can figure out my mod powers.
2 Likes
I don’t think that demographic will be changing over to electric for a long time, if ever. The reality is that the entire motorsports industry takes up less than I think 2% of the automotive gas consumption in the world, it might be less than one. The only real push for electric will be for performance gains and technology development.
Personally, I love the idea of an electric kart. It’s different, it’ll present a new challenge as a driver, and the karts will be fun as hell to drive. To your point about sound, the the kart will still make plenty of noise. Think about the VW I.D. R or Formula E racing. The transmission noise, tires, even the air will make racing noises no matter what’s powering the vehicle.
I think there will be an arms race between EV and ICE technology eventually, which I am going to enjoy every second of seeing.
Regarding sustainability, I think track support will be the biggest hurdle. Battery technology isn’t good enough to last a day on a full charge, so drivers will need to supply some way to charge their karts between sessions, change batteries and carry however many replacements they’ll need, or tracks will need to spend a lot of money providing charging amenities in the pit areas for the drivers. Until that can be figured out to be reasonable for either the drivers or tracks, the EV’s won’t be intruding on our gas powered powerplants.
1 Like
Ya know, no one is asking anyone to pick sides. You can like both if you want.
6 Likes
^ This.
We have enough polariztion in the world LOL