THIS! Human nature is to say one thing and do any another because we said what we thought was the “right” answer.
Subject change - What hurts more, hitting a hay bale or plastic barrier?
never hit a hay bale but they seem like they’d be way worse
Bale!!! Worse of all is a tractor tire though.
Plastic is slidey. Hay is grabby. I like plastic.
I get the heebie-jeebies when I see pics of rental tracks lined with tires. I’ve seen pics of one that had the tires embedded in the concrete, upright.
I mean it’s ok if the tires are stacked and lined on the outside with a durable plastic sheeting making a wall… but not just plain tire facing the driving surface.
Gotta be a hay bale. 60-120 lbs square bale depending on how the baler tension was set, vs a 20-30 lbs plastic barrier.
Those suck with full size dirt cars, can’t imagine with a kart!!!
I have seen improperly installed plastic barriers do a number on kart and driver. Plastic barriers with perpendicular seems can grab the rear axle on contact and suck the kart in and whip kart and driver in a violent circle. Have to use the plastic barriers with interlocking curved ends and have the convex (outward) curve end facing into traffic flow and the concave end facing down track.
Could you imagine that was haybales 
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There’s a great hay bale kart explosion pic from a thread last year… lemme find someone’s son getting spun
Plastic barriers = huggy barriers. The wrap around you like a loving hug from mom and protect you from the baddies. Assuming they don’t fill em with a ton of water.
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The bales don’t look like the moved at all. Yikes.
So long as you have the curved nose forward! You put them down backwards and they grab the rear axle hard. Or if they use plastic Jersey barriers (background in your shot) for the trackside barriers. That seam between barriers will snatch that rear axle and snap it right off and flat spin you hard. Saw it at TSRS Amarillo last year. They have modified the layout this year to prevent a recurrence.
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Sorry to join the discussion late… busy the week after the Grand Prix. First, let me stress that we’ve been doing this at Rock Island for 29 years now (31 if you count 2 years we skipped) and our race has ALWAYS focused on providing racing for any team that wants to come – whether it’s a national team or from a regional track. We run 2 cycle, 4 cycle, Vintage and shifter classes as well as Masters. We’ve often tried Junior classes (including this year when we had 1 entry for Briggs Junior ). We understand that many karters don’t want to run street races and accept that. But that seems to apply even more to young racers whose parents might draw the line for them, so Juniors isn’t likel to come back soon. In addition, when it comes to younger racers, when we started out decades ago, schools went back in session after Labor Day. Today many are back long before the holiday weekend. We get that. Today, many of the well-known teams are focused on younger drivers. We get that too.
We’ve been around long enough to see many changes in the sport and we’ve gone along with them. We’ve had large fields of Animals, Clones, Yamahas, Hondas. We’ve had massive fields of shifters and TAGs and hosted national events for Rotax and Bilands (remember them?). If there’s one thing we know it’s that the sport is going to change… and we will change with it.
Back before Covid we were hosting about 300 entries a year, but when things went bad a lot of people got out of karting. Other changes happened too and when people started racing again (at least in North America) they wanted something easy and fairly inexpensive – and Briggs 206 and Ignite began to explode and that’s what we face today.
With entries off after Covid we had to adjust. A street race has expenses other track events don’t. Even though ours is a free event, our Visitors Bureau tracks attendance by tracking cell phone signals, so we know we had 17,000 spectators over 2 days in 2023 – most for the Finals on Sunday. Where else can you race in front of that many people at a kart race? But that means we have to hire off duty police and security to keep spectators, the track and your karts and trailers in the pits safe, at a cost of more than $11,000 a year. In order to have eyes all over the track we hire 10 race officials and cover their transportation. We own miles of fence and barrels but also have to rent barriers and fence and truck them here for another $6,000… the list goes on and on to keep this a premier and safe race.
Someone said we shouldn’t make people buy tires, and we don’t for Ignite and Vintage. But other series require it and with entries at about two-thirds of what they were pre-Covid our cut provides some minor revenue. But most importantly it almost eliminates a challenging tech issue – the use of illegal tire prep.
This year was interesting and challenging as we had to carve out a new track. It’s something some drivers have been suggesting for years. We did it, but where were they? I’m looking forward to going back to smooth new streets next year. If changing tracks is so important for premier races, why have the Indianapolis 500 and Monaco GP done so well on the same track for so long?
Promotion is another topic in the sport that is always in flux. We’ve had ekartingnews.com supporting and broadcasting at Rock Island for years and years. Back when karting had solid publications like National Kart News, Shifter Kart Illustrated, Vroom, kart360 and others, Rock Island got world-wide coverage and attracted drivers from 13 foreign countries. Today most are gone or don’t believe we race in North America. Kartpulse and EKN are our mainstays. So we have moved to social media where on Facebook alone we have 9,000 followers. It you’re not a fan I suggest you sign up and I challenge other races and series to prove they do a better job on social media than we do. We’ll be ramping it up even more for our 30th year.
I’ve gone on long enough, but you raised a lot of issues before I joined in. I do miss our friends in the shifter world and so do our thousands or race fans. I hope the schedule and their interest and support will bring htem back in 2025. If there’s one thing I know about karting it’s going to change.
One more point I would like to make to racers, and I’ve heard this many times and believe it to be true. If all you do is race at your local track or at one series and don’t race at a street race like Rock Island, how will you ever get better? No matter how good you are today, if you race at The Rock next Aug. 30-31, you will leave a better racer. If Graham Rahal hadn’t raced the streets of Rock Island, would he have been as good on IndyCar street courses? If Scott Speed hadn’t raced and won at Rock Island could he have handled Monaco in Formula 1 ? We challenge you in different ways and meeting those challenges will make you a better racer when you go home!!
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ah, I can’t help but pick up on this because it goes back to the comment about media outlets which is very astute, but this comment speaks to why that has happened.
If you focus on F1 drivers, or drivers no longer in karting, then this puts a cloud over those that race above 16. If you promote on this basis you absolutely can’t be surprised, that over time, entries diminish as adults leave the sport. This is why karting media outlets have pretty much collapsed. The demographic shift has basically destroyed the market of engaged adults. Social media is far too insular to be as useful as it appears. This isn’t good for very special events like the Rock
I did a video on this here literally the other day.
it’s more profound in the UK, but I think as a rule-of-thumb talking about your series with an eye on Nascar, F1, Indycar… long term… is the wrong thing to do. Street karting is distinctly more adult oriented in nature. I don’t want to be patronising because you run the event, you know more than me, but on this one point it hints at an issue that I think has been disastrous overall for karting.
By saying something about Rock Island being a learning tool for things greater extinguishes any inherent value the event has. You have one of the best karting events int he world, why mention drivers and series that bring no value to you?
Thanks for sharing the video Alan.
Well, for now let’s forget the names and professionall series from years past. We can also pretty much assume at least until things change (which in karting they always do), that Cadet etc. won’t be featured at Rock Island. So why race with us? Well, there is the opportunity to race in front of thousands of cheering fans, enjoy the Saturday night social gathering and, from what I often hear from racers… see other competitors/mechanics/officials you only see once a year. I have many times compared the Rock Island race to Christmas where family and old friends get together once a year … because of the atmosphere it provides! Where else can you do that?
But just for a minute, let’s assume you are a die-hard racer (of any age) willing to step out of your comfort zone to try and become better. It happens here. Drivers get better. Where else can you:
- Find out if you can make fast decisions at 60 MPH or faster that you’ve been making at 40 on your home track?
- Realize that the fastest way around a race course isn’t always the shortest when bumps and manhole covers are involved
- Realize that tree-lined streets in the shade all day don’t race the same as tracks that bake in the sun. Also asphalt and concrete streets are different.
- Figure out the true difference in the racing line between a flat street and one with a crown in the road that wants to pitch you towards the curb
- Adjust to racing on a track that has no rubber when you start but where grip changes every time you go out.
- For 4 cycles, here at least, compete and adjust in a race with bump drafting of as many a 8 karts in a row.
- Race down a 2 block long straight where winds blowing in your face may slow you down while those blowing from behind you will speed you up.
- Due to time limitations you may face detailed tech inspections or possibly much less… but surely from trained officials with more scrutiny than you get at your home track. The same goes for review of on-track incidents
There are probably many more that Joseph and other racers might add to the list but there is no doubt you will become a better driver from racing here. If you have fun you will come back… as proven by 2 vintage kart racers we had this year ages 78 and 80!
Of course in the US there is no one in charge of karting. Until recently with the addition of Miami and LasVegas races (both street races) the FIA and Formula 1 were hardly known. Individual kart tracks and series rule their events with no consistent licensing or rules. In the US, if there has been a decline in adult kart racing it is partially due to the many other options available with autos, stock cars, motorcycles etc. In the same area where our race is held we have several dirt car tracks, a dirt karting track, a concrete kart track and one of the nation’s oldest drag strips, not to mention SCCA and other groups that attract racing fans.
I would argue that some other forms of motorsports are doing a better job of reaching out and promoting… something USA karting doesn’t do because – well, as I mentioned – no one’s in charge. And in many cases, US kart tracks are doing things the old fashioned way and wondering why the numbers are shrinking.
I’ve discussed this with Scott Kosak who runs the website GetInTheStands.com, designed to bring together race promoters to help address some of these issues. He was at our race this year and claims the majority are hurting because they are older and still doing what worked 20 year ago… so there are problems in all levels of motorsports – at least in the US. He plans to focus more on the different things people are doing to bring in racers and fans as opposed to those who refuse to change worried about competition.
That’s why I’m really excited that our event has younger committee members like Joseph Rapp and others who hopefully will keep pushing us in the right direction. I’ve been in the sport for 30 years, am 73 years old and have repeatedly admitted I haven’t had a new idea in decades. But we will continue to thrive (hopefully) because we encourge others to come up with and implement new ideas.
Again, I’ve gone on too long. But the future of our sport is important. These points are important. If you’re not doing it already give the younger generation the power to make important changes – especially in marketing and promotion. Keep them engaged and they will care and maybe they will stay with the sport longer.
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I don’t know… I went sliding along a plastic barrier at Elkhart but I suspect the result would have been more dramatic (straw everywhere) if the course was lined with bales of straw (Clyde).
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As a rental guy I love the plastic barriers since they are the same material as the kart wraparounds and thus have nice slidey-ness.