North American Kart License Program

21

Even if you were planning on missing the race you pointed out for, the emphasis of the program still stands strong because it keeps you out of it.

The other half is a suspension, in my opinion, should only drop you to 1-2 points below the limit. It shouldn’t be a factory reset, and to my understanding, it won’t be.

So even if you didn’t care to miss the next race, you’re still just 1-2 penalties away from ANOTHER suspension.

The points stay on your license for 12 months after they are acquired, so unless you sit out a full year you won’t be resetting back to zero anytime soon.

2 Likes
22

Reading the release again, maybe the penalty points system will reduce rough driving a bit. Although the announcement makes it sound like the core of the problem of bad driving at the national level is that many new drivers are overwhelmed when joining the faster classes.

The impression I am getting, when I read about poor driving and behavior at these races, is that some drivers just don’t care. They’ve got enough money, and some are simply not in karting long enough to feel the full effect of any sanction on them, so why would they care about how they drive? They’re not paying for the damages, and they’ll be racing cars or off to college soon enough.

On the other hand, this may be my current cyncism and bias coloring my opinion.

23

I think drivers (and teams) start to care a bit when they start missing races and the championship is no longer possible. With increased exposure via KartChaser, someone repping a team or brand might start to stain said team’s reputation.

Well either way they are gone from the national scene quickly, whether it’s through penalties or through them simply leaving karting as a whole.

Money makes many problems go away and there isn’t much anyone can do about that.

2 Likes
24

Many comments/questions on how this will clean up the driving at major national events. I am more curious about how the licensing program will go for “local” drivers looking to move up to compete in those national events.

In our case, we race at a local club and dabble in regional series. If I register for a license, do they start collecting data from my club and regional races? Am I responsible for inputting that information or does the club/regional series input that information?

Are we prohibited from signing up for a SKUSA or USPKS race until we reach a certain license level?

We race KAjr, is the NAKL even worrying about the junior/cadet classes, or is this for Senior and Pro drivers only?

I am also curious if the major series are concerned about low numbers based on the NAKL ruling drivers ineligible due to lack of experience or lack of participation in the NAKL.

25

More info on that is coming, but at the moment the main focus of the tiered licensing is for the pro level classes.

Obviously there has to be a starting point/on-ramp for people looking to join national-level racing. The series just don’t want newbies or drivers who might be quick but haven’t demonstrated the clean racecraft the series want, jumping into the deep end and causing incidents.

The license program will track incidents and penalty points for all classes.

26

You need to have specifics of the issues you’re trying to solve and then have a baseline measure of it.
After a period of the program being implemented, you can measure against that baseline and see if you achieved your goal and adjust accordingly.

1 Like
27

For sure. Given that all these penalties are being tracked, it should be pretty easy to see the data at the end of the season to see what has changed.

Obviously, I am fired up and pretty emotionally invested in this because my dad is the one leading the charge, and I have seen how hard he’s worked on this to try and make it right, and it’s something many of us in karting have been discussing for years and years. But I’m not blind to the fact that it may end up not being a perfect system and will probably need tweaking. I understand skepticism from some people, but I just want to reinforce that the intentions behind this are good; to better the whole landscape of national kart racing in the US. It all comes from someone who had worked in karting for the past 20 years across all facets of the sport, and saw a need for it and has the ability and time to work on it.

And as his son, I’m not afraid to tell him if one of his ideas is bad. :wink: This is not one of those ideas.

8 Likes
28

Are the national level race directors input being included on this? These are the guys making the calls and there needs to be some more consistency across all organizations so that drivers know they can’t get away with any BS in any series.

29

Definitely adds credence to the viability of this program knowing Tim is at the helm. Not many people are more respected and few are more dedicated to the sport for the right reasons. You know it’s been overthought about without a doubt! :smiley:

30

I think the various RDs are looking for mostly the same things, but of course there will be differences in how different officials make calls, that’s just the reality of human beings. Behind the scenes officials know where the majority of problems are and are mostly on the same page.

But as with any sport with human officials/refs/umps, there is some degree of variability and you do have to “play to the refs” somewhat if you are racing any different series. This happens in all sports. In the NFL teams and players know that some refs allow a bit more or less hand contact between receivers and defenders, or an ump might have a larger or smaller strike zone definition… You have to be aware of the intricacies of the series you’re racing in.

I also think that if someone is playing so close to the margins of acceptable on-track conduct, they’re playing a dangerous and unnecessary game anyway. And the first penalty they get should tell them where the line is. I think the rules regarding on-track conduct are fairly easy to understand for both series involved.

I think the Utah Pro Tour race drew a line in the sand and made all officials more strict and realize where the limit is.

2 Likes
31

All great stuff TJ. I hope after a few years of success this trickles down to the younger kids.

32

Do you think we could get your dadman on here? Bit of an escape from the FB “discussions”. Web search engines would get to see it too.

Maybe an FAQ? Just a thought or two

33

He’s having lots of conversations this week about it with lots of people but I’ll tell him to drop in if he can to answer some questions.

2 Likes
34

@tjkoyen When are you going on Kart Chaser to discuss this? I’d like to listen to what you and others have to say about it.

35

I believe I’m scheduled for this coming Tuesday but I haven’t checked the schedule lately and I’m not sure what Xander has planned for the topics.

Happy to give my thoughts if asked though.

2 Likes
36

Not that this will apply to me any time soon, but curious. Let’s say you are currently running a regional series and looking to step up to a national series. Will the NAKL be looking at your driving standards and quali pace before deciding if you are eligible to participate? Is that info even tracked at the regional levels? Does the NAKL plan on having a probationary license status for new comers to the pro levels?

For example, at my club (NTK) all newcomers have to have a rookie card signed off by the race director for X number of races. Until then, they must always start at the back of the grid for races and brand a big orange X on their rear bumper. Granted this is at the local level, but the concept is sound and could make sense at the pro levels too.

37

I was asked to come on here and answer some questions and clear up some things. Since I authored the program and am the one administering it, I have a pretty good grasp on where it sits now. And I say now, because the framework is set, but many of the details are still being worked out and will change as we fine tune the process, so everyone’s patience is appreciated.

And so there is complete transparency on this…my company contracts with USPKS to provide operation management services for its events. My company also has a contract arrangement with SKUSA and USPKS to provide operations services for the NAKL. I’m not an employee of either organization, and they don’t own any part of the NAKL. All that said, SKUSA, USPKS, you, and I, all have a vested interest in making this program successful. THE RACING WILL BE BETTER AND IT WILL BE SAFER AND AS A RESULT, IT WILL BE MORE FUN.

One important thing to reflect on here is that the big series are actually working together on something. As racers, we all grumble about how no one works together and how nothing aligns from one series to the next. The NAKL is the product of the series recognizing that, only through combined efforts, can a difference be made to improve the driving standards, and thereby, the racing. SKUSA and USPKS have many similarities, but many differences. This won’t change. These series are maintaining all their same processes and rules. The only difference is when you mess up in one, it’ll be reflected in both. Additionally, the NAKL has different "steps’ in the license process, but its primarily aimed at making sure that drivers entering the ‘pro’ classes like X30 Pro and KZ/Pro Shifter have accumulated some seat time and aren’t making their karting debut at SKUSA. There will always be classes for people without much experience, and they will always be welcome. The number of starts at a regional or in a KA/VLR required before running X30/KZ is minimal, but it ensures that you at least won’t get run over on the starts. And believe it or not, there are folks who show up at USPKS with an X30, never having run a regional race, and they usually end up regretting it. For local drivers or regional drivers wishing to take a shot at one of these events, they are welcome to do so in KA , Mini, Micro, or Masters. If the regional driver has enough experience in an X30 or Rok GP or Shifter, they should meet the requirements to run a pro class as well. Its all about experience.

The more important half of the license program relates to penalties. Each penalty received is assigned a point value based on the severity. Everything from bumper penalties on up to an unsportsmanlike DQ. In the event that a driver accumulates too many points in a given 12 month period, they will be unable to register for a Pro Tour or USPKS National race. Once enough time elapses that the older penalties fall off, they can race again. The exact time frame for the points falling off is still being finalized, but it will be something significant. Keep in mind that in research conducted for this program, samples were taken from current drivers and points calculated to see how it would’ve affect them. Most drivers will not be affected at all. However, those who make a habit of getting avoidable contact penalties at every event will most like not last a whole season of racing. Each series issues its own penalties based on their own rules and officiates just the way they always have. If all the officiating was the same, there would be no point in having 2 series. Each series needs to maintain its ‘flavor’. NAKL is making any rulings or decisions. There series have agreed to the points tables and NAKL is simply keeping score of everything and reporting it to them. If someone has a beef with their points, they will go right to the series who issued the penalty and follow their usual channels to dispute it.

For overseas drivers who are doing a one off, or someone who just wants to try out a series once, there will be a temp license option for the non pro classes. Experience information will be provided by the racer at the application time and NAKL will verify it and issue the appropriate credential.

Another question: STARS and Rok were asked to be a part of this program. Rok is participated in the development process, but is owned overseas, so the process of getting something approved can take longer. They may join in the program eventually.

How many racers will this affect? I anticipate that 400 or so racers will have a NAKL annually. Most of the racers that compete at SKUSA Pro Tour also compete at USPKS and vice versa.

A side point that seems to have been misinterpreted somewhere along the line. … USPKS, ROK, and SKUSA all have a mutual respect agreement if someone is banned from one of the other series for egregious or gross misconduct. Fighting, violence, etc. That agreement has nothing to do with the NAKL and is still in effect. I can assure that all of these series have honored each others incidents since the agreement was made. The SKUSA booting of McAlister was prior to the agreement being in place and therefore USPKS didn’t feel it right to enforce the ban. (This is more just clearing the air on this.)

We will have more information coming out soon via our website, northamericankartlicense.com, but the site is still being built. Thanks for your time and thank you to my son TJ for being the unofficial rep here and other places, and for doing project research on this along the way. If someone needs a direct answer on something, I can be reached at [email protected]. I likely won’t get a PM from here and may not be back here again for awhile, so direct contact is best.

13 Likes
38

Hi Tim, Thank you for taking the time to come our little forum and further explain your concept. Many of us here follow @XanderClements youtube channel Kart Chaser where this was discussed last week. I think many would agree with his assessment of your intentions.

Not that I expect you to respond here, I will reiterate my above question of how the NAKL will decide who is worthy of moving up from a Regional Program to a Pro/National Program? Call me a hopeful Karting Dad, that would like to understand the future criteria that would decide whether my little one makes onto the National Scene or is relegated to Regional Competition. I suspect some of these finer points are still very fluid, so I do not expect an immediate answer. Rather I would like it to be taken into consideration as you further develop your formula. The reality is that at this point it will not effect us any time soon, but I know there are several racers at my local club that already participate in one Regional series or another that it may and will have a vested interest in the answer sooner than later. I will forgo name drops just to say that the North Texas Karting community has some up and comers that will be knocking on those doors soon.

I think I can speak for the majority on this forum by saying we appreciate what you are trying to do! Something that has been in place throughout most of Europe already, but has been missing in the North American Karting scene. Kudos to you Sir! You are probably one of the few who has been vested a long a time in our culture and at the same time respected well enough to spearhead this venture. We thank you. I think if successful, it well may desalinate down to lower tiers of the sport. Improving Karting as a whole.

2 Likes
39

If you look at this part of Tim’s post, it looks like there is no barrier to entry in the classes he mentions above. I would assume most looking to make the jump from Club-Regional-attempt a national race would be in the classes he mentions.

I am ASSUMING that you’ll be required to register for an NAKL license to race these events, and they will begin to accumulate data on the driver and you’ll be held to the same standards as the Pro drivers, ie if you get too many penalties you’ll face a event ban.

At the end of the day these series still want as many entries as possible to ensure a profit, as any business would, but not at the expense of the top level classes.

1 Like
40

Hi Greg & John,

Its great to have people engaged on this topic and thinking about how it can positively impact the future of the sport we all love.

John is correct in that there is no barrier to entry for most classes. There are guidelines to help people understand that putting in the time training, practicing, and learning, before jumping into one of these event (or any other big one) will help make their experience more enjoyable and more successful, but the Pro classes are the only ones that will require you to have appropriate experience to gain access to.

Most of us know better than to buy our first kart on the way to the track and expect to compete at the top level, but you might be surprised how many people decide they want to rent a kart and have their first experience in X30. I’m not even joking when I say that I spent 30minutes on the phone with someone this summer who claimed his kid, who never ran anything but indoor karts, was going to win a few USPKS races this summer in KA Jr. He wanted to know if the big teams would offer him free rides when that happened. I told him unequivocally Yes! (and if he was THAT good, they would) But I suggested he go do a test day with a local team and gave him a number. He showed up for the test and the driver was 6 seconds off the pace. Obviously he was a bit dejected, but I’d rather he be disappointed on a free test than after investing thousands of $$ to come to a race with no practical experience. Hopefully they will rethink what is needed to compete and put in the same time and effort you and I are to be competitive. Then come back and win some races!

Take care,
Tim

2 Likes