This as well What I found when I started karting was that trying to just rely on a shop to help get me up to speed wasn’t always the most straight-forward approach. Some are very good, while others are just guessing, but not documenting any of their findings. So it’s really the blind leading the blind.
But like Nik said, having a strong BS filter is a good help. Also start taking your own setup notes, so that you can notice consistencies will help you too. What works for one driver with a particular driving style, may not always work for you.
However, if you have some trends on your own setup preferences, that will also help you as well when trying to work with someone else.
Agree 100%. I was kind of trying to say this without throwing anyone under the bus. But I definitely raced for some people who tried to help us tune the kart but nothing would work. I later found out were clueless and years later were asking me “what caster did” at the track in the middle of a race weekend as we were thrashing them every session.
I think though too, we have to make sure that we balance out the difference between a “Good tuneable chassis” compared to a “knowledge shop who knows how to tune.”
When it comes to ‘if a chassis is good or not’, it really comes down to how willing you are to learn to understand it.
Chassis plays a big role and will get you close. Tuning and ability to drive gets you the rest of the way. The brand we were on in Club & 206 Cup from 2012-2015 was a struggle. Moved to an Ionic Edge by Luttrell Racing and immediately moved to the front of the pack from the mid to back. Picking up 1 second plus at each track we went to from the previous year on the soft tire.
We get a ton of support from Kyle Luttrell. I was blown away with the time he spent on the phone with me person to person and via text through out the season. I would bet that his chassis would work really well with a Yamaha on it. I’ve been tempted to mount one up and give it a whirl at Badger. Just need CIK and the engine, No big task, right LOL.
Like mentioned above. Having support is huge. Trying to find the “sweet spot” is tough and even tougher if you are using a chassis that you are not able to get any help with.
I would agree that it comes down to time testing and the driver more than the chassis itself, this is if you are in the correct chassis for your class and weight. I just switched over to a Righeti Ridolfi World Formula chassis for our local F100 series. Only two others were running the chassis and one switched to OTK because he thought it was the Kart that was keeping him out of the front runners.
I keep a data spreadsheet with all of my testing adjustments, temps, times, and locations. I spent the first month with lots of test days to learn the chassis. I now run consistently towards the front if not at the front in a chassis that everyone said would not be a front runner.
It all comes down to Seat Time, Fundamentals of Kart Setup, and knowing how your Kart reacts each adjustment.
Robert, I’ve got a total sidebar question for you.
We have another thread here on the forums where we talk about how we’re recording our setup information. Would you mind sharing a blank template of your setup methods, so we could all learn a bit more?
Sorry for jacking the thread. Back to chassis discussions!
I gotta say, with my admin hat on, that this thread is really about determining how people discover good chassis, not a promotional board to sell stuff. Let’s try to keep stuff like this on the minimum, and stay focused on the topic at hand of helping the karting community.
Otherwise, just DM someone if you want to provide some promotion.
I would think the fact that they feel the need to advertise it is what got him. I noticed that too but wasn’t going to mention it since I didn’t know how to word it without being rude. The way they’re saying it is that the kart will win races right away, which any chassis can do. This whole post has been coming to the conclusion that a chassis isn’t the determining factor in a drivers performance, while the OTB moniker is trying to go against that.
That had happened to us when we went from our original kart, a mid-2000s Haase, to our 2013 Kosmic. I’m pretty sure the frame was bent to some degree, as we picked up almost a second from our old chassis.
One convenient piece of the switch was that people can help us out a lot better now since when most of them are on the OTK group, they’ll know what to look for and help with both setup and driving. The guy we had helping us at the Route 66 race was adamant that our chassis was much too bound up on exit (along with an engine that was in desperate need of a rebuild). We made some adjustments and the last time I drove the kart it felt a lot better than before the races. We wouldn’t have found that same help had we stuck with the Haase brand.
Sorry, weird tangent, but back to the main point. Would you say having a decent chassis should be important, not in terms of name but the relative age and condition of the chassis? Our first kart was old, driven for years at the club weekend after weekend, with a couple flips in it’s lifetime if I remember correctly before we got it.
Another apology for just bombarding you guys with questions constantly.
Never apologize for questions. That’s what a discussion board is for.
Anyway, I’d 100% say that quality of the chassis is important. If the machine is beat up, not well maintained, or worn out, it won’t perform as well as it could when it was fresh. That’s not to say that some used karts can’t perform well, but it also depends on the level of competition you’re going up again.
A used kart might work great for a club race, but not for Supernats.
The condition of the chassis is most important. Usually a used kart has been abused and used up.
However, if you keep your stuff in good shape, an older chassis can still be competitive within reason.
My favorite three examples:
Tommy Andersen setting fast lap in TaG Senior at SuperNats on a 2-year old Kosmic, including passing factory ART GP driver (now formula car hot shoe) Charles Leclerc.
Ashley Rogero winning/running up front at multiple national-level TaG races on Tony Karts that were between 2-3 seasons old.
Stepanova Nekeel switching from his brand new Vemme kart to a used Tony Kart he bought for $900 in the middle of the weekend at the event and going on to win the Rotax Grand Nationals on that kart in Senior Max.
If you take care of your kart and run frame protectors, don’t get into wrecks, and don’t have to bend it back multiple times… A chassis will serve you well for a few seasons.
I destroyed a kart at a Pro Tour race in 2012, a year old Exprit that had a full season of racing on it. We pulled a new Exprit out of the box, went out on the same setup, went the same time. So in that example, the year old kart was identical to the brand new kart.
Age is probably more important then brand (assuming you stay in the 5 or 6 factories we’ve mentioned).
Remember a kart works by flexing the tubing, and metal changes its properties with repeated flexure (work hardening). The olden days this didn’t have as much of an effect, these days chassis seem to be inherently softer (at least your OTK, BirelARTs etc) and don’t last as long.
Without knowing the exact history its very difficult to make a judgement call.
One thing to note though is that there are a lot of mildly used karts being sold by teams that have told their drivers to buy new ones. So you can get a good deal on a 2 or 3 race old chassis and its relatively easy to track down the results of that driver to see if they got smashed.
No need to apologize, that’s what the forums are here for
When picking a chassis, new or used there are a lot of variables to consider. Additionally these variables are very unique for each person.
I think it would be fair to say you need a decent chassis in decent condition that offers decent support (when needed) at a decent price.
Something that’s still straight with no left rail sag, minimum grinding of the rails on the bottom, and in decent mechanical condition is a solid start.
As for less known/popular chassis it matters, and it doesnt. Again, it’s all down to your unique situation and goals. A brand being well known doesn’t necessarily equate to it being a good thing for you. For example Gold kart has been well known, but a kind of also ran for many years. They weren’t a “cool” chassis like OTK, CRG etc. David Fore joined them this year and they are at the pointy end of the field.
I’d recommend fokls try to not pay to much attention to “winning” when it comes to sales rhetoric. With 3000+ races across the US in a year, practically every chassis is likely to have won something, somewhere and practically every brand claims it. It’s redundant and it doesnt really matter. What matters is how that relates to your racing situation. Buying a chassis “just” because it won a big race, under a tent with fantastic resources doesn’t mean it’s going to work well for you all by yourself at the track trying to figure it out.
I’d also mention that the inverse is true too. Just because you haven’t seen someone winning on ‘Chassis X’, doesn’t mean that you can’t tune your way to the front with enough seat time, and sticking with it. (Just as long as it stays fun running that chassis.)
What I found when I started karting was that trying to just rely on a shop to help get me up to speed wasn’t always the most straight-forward approach. Some are very good, while others are just guessing, but not documenting any of their findings. So it’s really the blind leading the blind.
