Viability of a multi-manufacturer, 100cc TaG Class?

This absolutely would work and it’s how every true multi-engine class SHOULD be implemented.

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Its how it should be, but each championship is run by an importer. The only importer who’s been brave enough so far to allow more than one engine manufacturer into a “100cc” class is ROK this weekend in Vegas.

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This would work, if people could be mature and not ‘go-kart’ each other, to try and work out an advantage. :wink:

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Speaking of ROK letting the KA into their class, does anyone know how the two engines are doing comparatively to each other?

I think most series have been too far apart to allow the engines to be compared.

But I could be wrong…

Mixing the motors was at least trialled for a while in Cali:
@dagee2 talks about it here in this topic:

Re-reading this got me thinking… and it’s a rhetorical question IMO.

In a world where well supported, quality engine packages with established rulesets exist…
How do “local” motors add value to the racer?

I disagree that it would absolutely work.

It 100% depends on how it’s implemented and managed.
To me spec, “restricted” spec and open formats can all work… or not.
It’s all down to how it’s implemented… and what the goals of the group implementing it are.

Most people don’t think of it that way however. They seem to think if one is good, the others have to be bad (not saying this is you)

Once you mix them, you know it’s going to be a war of arms… in some ways that can be good and can certainly be interesting. But in the process each engine manufacturer will push their own agenda and attempt to contort rules, perhaps even track selection.

The real test of these motor’s parity will be when they go to different style tracks that say favor mid vs bottom end. At the moment, the specs seem to be close enough that they should be in ballpark… certainly not as wildly different as a PRD vs a Vortex in the 125cc TAG days.

But again, there’s nobody regulating the “parent” regulations for these motors yet. It really depends who takes the lead… It might well be RoK given they have accepted the KA so far. They will have a bit of a PR problem if the VLR keeps wiping the floor though. But the cool thing is that at least the KA owners and come and play and get in the hunt.

If it works out it could well be a cool format for those of us that like to see a bit more variance in packages.

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The manufacturers don’t make the rules though. The regulation body would say “make an engine to these specs”, then set the specs tight enough that there is very little room for two different makes of engine to be super different. The issue right now is every series is tied to one manufacturer.

Are the VLR motors significantly faster than KA this week in Vegas?

Personally, I only think that Local Option engines only really works when the local racers can work together to not cannibalize each other.

Also, if the region has enough racers to allow them to support the engine.

Mostly karting typically becomes a zero-sum game where someone had to die for another to live, sometimes introducing new engines just ends up cutting into an existing class, rather than making it grow.

I looked up the results and I can’t tell other than there was 21 racers, a Vortex won and times looked pretty close for the top three at least.

http://www.apex-timing.com/goracing/results.php?path=/otkusa/2018/rokrio/

Also nothing on any of Kart360’s reports from the week, I clicked around CKN and found nothing there either
Maybe only Vortex’s turned up?

Are the OK and OK junior classes being established this situation except with 125cc engines?

How are the restrictions on different manufacturers takes on achieving the spec applied?

Looks like there were at least two KA in senior…

image
Pic: Kart360

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Might want to make a point that admins seperated out the topic, so people aren’t confused.

So true. At least where I’m at, it seemed to go like this: KT was popular, that dropped off and Clone became the IT thing. Then that dropped away as the 206 became the preferred 4-stroke motor. Now, those that have been running 206 are moving to the KA.

To reply to the subject line of this thread, I would love to see a multi-manufacturer 100cc class. The problem I see is that there is no one national level sanctioning body dictating the rules. Every region and heck, even every club, seems to have their own slight twist on an engine package that works best. At one point a couple of years ago, there were 3 (or was it 4?) different tire compounds being run in NorCal depending on what insurance a track was using. So, I think if there was a sanctioning body in place kind of like the CIK-FIA is in Europe that dictates the rules of KZ, then a class of this nature could be viable in the States. But to me, we’re too big and too spread out to ever be unified on anything.

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FWIW I was listening to the EKN industry insider with ROK Cup USA’s Garret Potter. He said that the VLR was specifically designed to have parity with the KA in an effort to build the class (rather than divide it).

https://ekartingnews.com/2018/11/02/industry-insider-episode-9-garett-potter-rok-cup-usa/

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That may well be, but without any governing body to dictate those rules, it would be very easy to build the VLR slightly quicker than the KA.

However, it looks like the KA more than held it’s own this past weekend, so at the moment I’m not too worried.

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Hmm, the KA and VLR have different port timing, different reed size (KA is larger) and a different carb *
Min head volume could be different, but I wasn’t able to find it on the KA100 fiche.
Perhaps those decisions were from a reliability standpoint.

Granted the carb I think is close or identical to the KA’s (US version) but a different model number.

Another thing, the details given in the fiches varies wildly. There’s no standard (that I can tell) that specifies the required information. So each fiche covers different details.

VLR Fiche
KA100 Fiche

There’s a squish dimension on the KA, but it’s absent from the VLR.
Min head volume is shown for the VLR, but not KA.
Etc etc

Incidentally, I spoke with Dave Larson from TAGUSA yesterday. For 2019 they will be adding a mixed 100cc class which at this point would include at least the KA, VLR and X100AC (Which I think they renamed the X125, despite being 100cc :confused: )

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My observations from running a KA (my first experience with any of these “new” 100 air-cooled engines) at Rok the Rio…

I ran Masters. The top 5 were all on the KA, and by the end of the weekend, we had created a bit of a gap to the VLR’s. Now, to be perfectly honest, I have NO idea if that came down to driver / chassis or engine. What I do know is that early in the weekend, we were closer and I wouldn’t have known who was running what, but (personally) as we refined the chassis and I got better behind the wheel, I got faster and faster. Also, the top-5 all had more “team support”, while the VLR’s tended to be smaller true “privateer” efforts. My gut tells me that they could have run together, but because the KA is a “more tested” package, most people were on the KA.

In the Senior class, again, most of the karts were running the KA. BUT, the guy who led most of the final was on a VLR. So, I’d say that the VLR is certainly capable.

I believe that as time passes and more people become familiar with the VLR, that you’ll see a pretty even split between the 2.

At this point, my only question is how the IM engine will fit into the mix.

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It sounds like they have a few pre-ordered, so we’ll be able to see what the preformance is like.

However, knowing the IM guys, they’ll have done their homework, so I’m sure there will be parity.