Doesn’t this give rise to the “buy 25 engines and mix/match the best of the best” for a “super” engine?
Yeah, my older brother once told me the cost differences to run X30 or Rotax at a high level are more or less the same
Yes.
Spec racing eliminates some of the variables, but doesn’t necessarily eliminate the cost, and in some cases makes things more expensive.
You either spend the money buying 20 engines to find the ‘magic’ or you spend the money buying 5 engines and having a builder go over them and building one or two monsters out of those 5.
The people with the money to spend will find a way to spend it, no matter how much you try and limit them.
Great explanation on whats wrong with karting .. L206 for example is suppose to be pull out of box jet and run to keep costs down. Not go thru 20 engines because you have the money. And others dont. And engine builders building what. Something that was suppose to be low cost class .. Thats why we are sticking to rentals and Electric platforms for the most part..
Batteries are the new tires! Fresh power supply for max pull! Ready, set? SPEND!!!
No matter what form of racing, there will always be someone who can and will spend more money to have an advantage. Just how it goes.
Exactly. But 20 battery packs, keep the best for races, and run the rest in practice. Sell the moment performance drops off and repeat. Zero difference made in reducing costs.
Not a karting specific issue. If your kid wants to play Little League, you can spend a fortune on the nicest equipment too, or you can go on the cheap and buy used or get something more budget friendly. People will always spend what they want.
You specifically mention how the Tillotson and. similar spec engine programs eliminates this issue. My point is that no, it does not. Now I need to buy 15 Tilly engines to see which is best.
We bought an engine from Lawson. We paid the extra 500 or so for the Lawson prep. Only 206 engine we have ever bought. We were less than a tenth off of the kid who qualified 1st at GN9 at our regional race while being pushed by a national race winner. One engine, not twenty. Feel free to draw a different conclusion.
I don’t know Gary other than a handful of phone calls. I didn’t ask him for his best motor. I didn’t offer him ungodly sums of money. I just bought an engine from him because our team mate recommended him due to the positive experience.
IMO, the best equalizer is a rigid and well-defined set of engineering specifications, not a supplier specification. Just like F1 rulesets, there’s mild chaos in the beginning, and then all solutions eventually converge to the ideal compromises. If there’s a spec, then out of spec can be machined to meet it. If there’s a seal, well, good luck.
Well 450 4stk take the place of 250 2stk. 250 4stk take the place of 125 2stk.
I have two Rotax max karts that we just take out to practice days as there is no class for them around here. It’s fun but not as fun as racing:)
The 2 strokes were phased out through rule changes that favored 4 stroke. In the mid 90s 4-strokes were allowed to compete alongside 2 strokes. The 2 strokes were all 250cc, the 4 strokes were a range of 400 to 550cc platforms. Rules were finally standardized around a 125 2 stroke vs 250 4 stroke and 250 2 stroke vs 450 4 stroke. Ricky Carmichael was the last 2 stroke champion in 2006, after that pretty much the entire field had jumped over to the larger and higher torque 4 strokes.
So yeah, the 4 strokes were given a bit of a preference to the tune of DOUBLE the displacement. ![]()
While we are on this topic…
Why are the industrial 4-strokes (ie gx270) so all over the place output wise as compared to 2-strokes?
Is it that the engines are machined/tolerances tighter on the fancy engines and the leaf blower is a lot less quality control?
Exactly bigger tolerances = bigger power deltas.
In the last three or four years the twostrokes have been making quite a comeback in amateur mx. The new KTM 2strokes are just as easy to ride as the four strokes. Much more tractable than they were in the past and of course fuel injection now.
As to the original post I think the author said that four strokes are easier to work on, that is absolutely not true. I will say though that they need less maintenance than a 2t though.
Back in the day when I was racing 250 gearbox karts we would sometimes installl a new piston and rings after the heats for the main. That’s not happening with a 4t!
Our track has engine claiming procedure. I think this solves this issue nicely. If you first and someone thinks you have better engine they can simply pay a fee and take it
I don’t think claiming really works. No one wants to take someone’s engine. Good rules do not reduce how much money people spend but it does reduce how much difference it makes. I think theoretically non spec classes can work, but seldom do. Back in KT100 days there pipe of the month and the clutch to have. Not to mention “the builder” to use. I think spec classes done well addresses that. And sealed motors make local tech much easier.
Why not? I mean I like idea. Go ahead and spend all you want but know that someone can take your engine.
I know one thing - I don’t need any special engine now
Did couple practices I can’t even handle what I got
For X30 here they are sealing but only the day or weekend of competition. I prefer that to be honest