Birel new chasis improvements?

My son is 13 YO and runs in Jr 2. We got him started 6 mos ago and he’s progressing well in racing. Started him in a 2019 Birel AM29 chasis. I understand that the 2022 Birels underwent signifcant changes and they are .2 to .3 seconds or more quicker around our local track. The new one is the RY30-S14. Would be a about a $3k cost upgrade ($4k to 7k for the new one)
Trying to decide if those improvements really do equate to performance gains. Does anyone have experience in both chasis?

You’ll find that in karting that the latest and greatest is “always” faster. Unless the chassis you are on has significant wear, has been in big crashes keep using it. Since you are starting out your money would be better spent turning laps, burning through tires, and getting a coach. Wait to get a new chassis for next year or find one that a team used for a single race weekend and is flipping it for 30-40% off.

For perspective I bought a brand new '21 OTK. Pulled it out of the box turned a couple practice sessions and didn’t like it. If you asked anyone at that time the new '21 was half a second faster. Went back to a well used '18 and ran it for another season. (Put on the newest plastics and no one will know you’re on an antique :wink:)

Here she is sitting on the 3rd row for a feature race around brand new “fastest thing ever” karts.

1 Like

I would maintain a healthy skepticism about this.

If I was to add up the claims of time found with a newer chassis over the last 20 years we’d have cadets turning shifter kart speeds :joy:

With only being six months into the sport I’d use the chassis you have for at least another season unless it’s damaged in some way.

2 Likes

And, with kerb wear and tippy-taps, that chassis will eventually decide it’s had enough anyways…

Run it till it’s dead, imo.

Why’s a new chassis faster?

The wheel bearings aren’t shot.

Do you want to go from a 28/30 mm chassis to an all-30? If so, then you could gain time with a new chassis, but are you already as stiff as the adjustments on the AM29 will let you get to?

1 Like

The RY30-S14 is a Tag/single speed chassis. While it can be used for 4 stroke, it is setup more for 2 stroke racing. The AM29-S14 is the 4 stroke chassis and designed to run best with the 4 stroke. They have different tubing and geometry to accommodate the different horsepower.

I wouldn’t consider changing to the RY30 unless you’re planning to switch to a 2 stroke motor, because it sounds like you are running a 4 stroke and on the chassis designed and tuned for the 4 stroke.

1 Like

I am still driving a ~07 Intrepid Suzuka 32mm shifter chassis with LO206 on it, the chassis has gone through all kinds of shit. Last Sunday race, I am quite consistent about .5 - .8 slower than the fastest guy and they are on a much newer OTK or Birel or TopKart.

I agree with the sentiment here that you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who can guarantee 0.2-0.3 a lap from a new chassis. Is anyone explaining to you why the kart is faster? I agree with @Zebug , you’re likely on the correct chassis for your class anyway.

0.2-0.3 is such a marginal amount of time, you could easily equate that down to one driver error or small chassis adjustment. And at 6 months in, your driver is likely making a lot more than just 0.2 worth of errors per lap, so the chassis is the main thing to work on at this stage.

Instead of spending $3k for something that probably will go the same pace you’re at now, you’d be much better served getting some real driver coaching for a fraction of the price.

As you continue in this sport, you’ll learn that there is a ton of low-hanging fruit in driving and setup knowledge, and once you get those sorted, you can focus more on the final little pieces of the puzzle which may include optimizing your equipment.

Unless the Birel is for some reason horrific around that track a .2 to .3 improvement, like for like (i.e new vs new), is almost unheard of in karting… if we’re talking absolute peak performance. I would go as far to say whoever told you that is taking nonsense. Chassis have barely changed in 30+ years.

Some karts can be hard to set up so drivers can find time with various brands, but very rare to find any chassis brand with that kind of performance find. What really defines a brand is how consistent their build quality is and ease of setup.

3 Likes

The special thing about the Emme karts - Magik, AK USA, Mad Croc, Drago, eKs - is that there is nothing special about them. All of the components are off-the-shelf, the frame looks like every other modern chassis and is made from entirely ordinary 25CrMo4 (which is European for 4130), it’s not advertised as special for any given type of track or condition, and the designer (Armando Filini) certainly knows what he’s doing so there aren’t gross mistakes.

Knowing that, if some other manufacturer has found a secret or developed a durable advantage, they should be able to reliably beat the Emme karts. Do you think you’re going to find a second, a half, a tenth moving from a Mad Croc to something else? Do you think someone else will?

I’m a big OTK fan for the single speed karts. I’ve run Gillard, Mad Croc, CRG, Energy but none of these are consistently as quick as the OTK. I do believe most of the name brand karts can be as fast as the OTK but may be more finicky to set up and drive. The Birel or CRG might be fractionally quicker than an OTK if set up perfectly and driven perfectly for the track conditions but the OTK has a huge tune window and it’s easy to drive fast and set up for the average karter. I don’t run with a team or under a tent , so I mostly do my own tuning but do get some tuning advice from experts.

Sometimes I think that the kart builders only design for their best drivers on the racing teams in Europe and when the same chassis design is used for Joe Karter it fails because it’s too hard to set up and drive.

Not sure why, but the few times I’ve bought new, I’ve picked up a tenth maybe two. New certainly drives more consistently.

1 Like

I can barely can get .1-.2 seconds going from my shifter chassis to my L0206 chassis in 206. On any track so setup is usually the biggest factor. There is more time made up from the right rims or airpressure to me. Note the two chassis have to be setup differently but peak vs peak

There’s some of us running 14+ year old karts and being as fast as and faster than the brand new stuff. :man_shrugging:t2:

New doesn’t always me faster. Sometimes, its the opposite effect. Some of the fastest guys I know are on older chassis from like 2005-2009. Usually older Birel and Coyote chassis perfrom well here in my neck of the woods. Is it the chassis or the driver? My guess is its the driver.