Bump and Run

41

Good. :slight_smile: It’s nice to talk about top karters and top-level kart classes. We are desperately starved in this sport.

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42

Ya, sorry for contributing to drama when I am a complete noob. I’m just enjoying being a fan. Karting almost felt like F1 this weekend, which is a nice change.

43

I’ve been a race official…your offer is almost tempting, but…

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44

Dale Earnhardt was my childhood hero, not sure I really need to qualify my stance on this any more than that.

Had Gavin put him off the track, into the wall, or around facing the wrong direction he would have had a penalty. Had Billy held the racing line and turned in with contact Gavin would have had a penalty, Maybe Billy holds the racing line and turns in and Gavin backs out because he knew he wouldn’t have position…but the moment Billy moved to defend with a rule set that doesn’t have push backs he should have known contact was likely. Gavin executed the most perfect offense to Billy’s defense he could have which is why he came away with no penalty and the win.

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45

Haven’t really ran into that recently. Normally the slower guys are in the back and we aren’t catching them in race. Where rentals and endurance races might get more mixed.
I still don’t believe with even someone who is “slower” deserves a bump-n-run or being physically moved out of the way. I had to start in the back a couple weeks ago for a race. I was clearly faster than the back half of the field, but I sliced and diced through them without a single bit of contact. If you’re faster it’s on you to get by clean.
Contact IMO should always be accidentally or a bump draft to let someone know you are there.

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46

Growing up racing in the days before front bumpers and even side pods when I first started you had to learn to race clean without contact, so that was a move I don’t really agree with. That just not the case anymore. Like it or not, as musgrave said in the press conference, as long as we all know what’s deemed “acceptable”, that’s how we will race moving forward.

When/if Bayliff gets moved I expect to hear zero complaining about it.

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47

Thanks! I forget that most races are shorter and that generally folks aren’t being lapped.

48

Well several things in my opinion.

Running a class without the pushback creates these things, end of story.

Bumping should be an instant penalty, moving someon eout the way to overtake has nothing with racing to do. But that said i have seen instances where that in reallity was the only way to overtake when defending went into plain blocking, so its not all black and white in my opinion.

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49

looking at the video, billy seems to be off the defensive inside line by about half a kart width, because gavin isn’t in the grass or jumping the inside curb, and he clearly bumps him on the right side of the kart. with that said, the slightest bump would, and did, give gavin the room to go underneath. in my opinion, billy needed to hug that corner tighter and anticipate the bump. gavin would have had to blatantly knock the shit out of billy to make room had billy been further inside.

50

The argument on the severity of the bump is strange to me. What other rules can be broken just a little for a win? Squish just a thou too tight? Could a trailing driver put 4 wheels off the track for .2s for a pass for the win? How much should off pole get to jump the start before that penalty is applied? Unless the rules state they will judge based on the severity, then it should be pretty black and white.

I think what most drivers/parents/team owners want at national events is consistency and clarity in the calls. I had a timing and scoring guy point to FiA rules and at TSRS (SKUSA sanctioned regionals) when there is no such reference in their rulebook to FiA rules.

Stupid question - Was an over/under completely out of the question for Bayliff?

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51

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52

To me there is nothing wrong with that kinda moves. Its racing. As long as not putting other driver on the fence. Thats unacceptable. Imho

53

And I think that is the reason for the discussion. About 50% of the world agrees with you and about 50% of the world disagrees with you. I would just like some clarity in consistency in the rules across ALL racing (yes, I understand that is impossible). I don’t care who is right and who is wrong, I just want to know what the rule is and see it enforced.

54

So as Long as the recieving driver do not end In the fence or gravel its okay to push them aside for an overtake,?

55

You would soon get fed up of racing against me then if you are happy for me to do that to you. :slight_smile:

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56

Have personally witnessed plenty of inconsistency at TSRS events. Policing classes with some of them as big as SKUSA with fewer officials is tough. But even with that consideration, a few calls have been real head scratchers.

AS for the the over-under coming to the checker. At SpeedSportz is iffy in a single speed and even more challenging in a shifter. The turn 14 corner is not a continuous radius 180, it apexes and then continues to bend slightly as it opens on exit and then you hit the kink at 15 coming to the checker. It can allow the defending kart to swing wide on exit and carry enough momentum to have a run to the stripe, whereas normally an over-under move would give the overtaking kart better momentum through the exit.
The over-under at 11 can sometimes get bottled up by the kink at 12. Still doable, but the lead kart has room to block.
Personally think I have seen the most consistent overtaking at 6 and the double rights of 8-9.
I have seen the most pile ups in 14 and 11.

57

We had a relatively simple policy and workflow for these incidents at FIA level, which allowed consitency in reporting to the stewards:

  • Over agressive contact in “bump”, without overtaking of the leading kart = Warning flag
  • Contact in “bump” leading to an overtake of the leading kart (we reffer to them as “tap and take”, you guys call it “bump and run”. Bassicaly the move that is being discussed in this thread) = automatic report to Race Control for review.
  • Race control deems that a “tap and take” actually did take place after looking at camera footage, report to the Stewards is made, driver is put “under investigation” on the Digiboard, live.

Penalties from Stewards come as a reference to Art 2.24 of the CIK - FIA General Prescriptions.

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58

The rules here in my place is if u dont push the other driver to the gravel n ur bumper not pushed inside then youre good to go. Slight bump is still okay.

59

I would do the favor back at ya. :rofl:

60

Nope. I’d do it to you every race. You’d soon get annoyed. I’d wait for you, let you by, and bump you wide last corner. Every chance I’d get I’d do it. :slight_smile:

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