This is going to be a very fluid project this season.
I love shifters. Everyone loves shifters, I think. Every post we make as a series about shifters gets tons of traction and engagement compared to anything else.
This is very much spawned from talking about the FZ program.
The initial ask was “Do you guys want a junior shifter class?” And it escalated pretty quickly into cadet shifter talk. We’ve been talking internally about how to grow shifters as a whole.
The plan:
Pro Shifter
This is what you think… 125 Honda, ROK, KZ, 175 with the normal weight breaks. No big deal here. We’re paying 75%, but that’s a different topic.
Sportsman Shifter
This is what we used to have as the 80cc Shifter class. Changes? We’re going to exhaust reatrict 125s down to 80 power and hopefully have a BIG group. You can run both with the same kart now if you want. Restrictor size will be determined as we nail it down. Expect CR125, ROK and KZ to have different sizes. Let’s add the FZ85 here for guys that want to just settle on an 80.
JUNIOR SHIFTER!
Here’s where the fun will happen. We will maybe restrict the 80 a bit to slow it down from what we have in sportsman and then try to match the 125s to that power range as well, maybe not… This is a discussion to have in the coming weeks. Why not have the same engine from 12-retirement? We do it with the 206. Let’s let the FZ85 in here, too.
CADET SHIFTER
This will be fun to nail down… The FZ65 would be great, but let’s face it… Maybe these guys don’t want to drop $5k on a package for a startup class. We have 80s a plenty around still. Let’s restrict that down to the FZ65 power and let them all play.
Lots of open discussion able to be had here as we go through and develop this. My favorite part about what we’re doing is trying to do the same thing Wes is with the Sportsman Shifter class. I think it has potential to be huge.
Here ya go, @Muskabeatz … That’s about all I’ve got so far. I think I have a place to punch out plates pretty quick so we can test multiple sizes back to back to back and get it figured out pretty quick.
Added:
I guess I should go ahead and throw this out there… I’m laying a foundation for what is hopefully a future project. Think a 3-5 race series at tracks that is a shifter only grassroots program.
Just to be sure, the FZ65 is legal in Cadet Shifter, right?
Try restricting exhausts at the END of the expansion chamber rather than at the header - that’ll give a nice flat powerband and avoid having a red hot piece of metal right next to the piston to cause detonation.
It was really only named because of the work put in already on the package by Musgrave. I’m not opposed to any engine as long as the performances remain close. At the end of the day, it’s a program to get kids into shifters after all.
is there a consensus that the lack of shifter entries and participation in general is directly correlated to the lack of alternate categories like Junior, Cadets, Sportsman?
In other words we are saying more engines, more classes will give people the chance to participate because they can find a platform of their liking that does not exist now?
Also who are these people and what are they doing now? Are they racing in single speed afraid of the jump, are they turning laps with a Honda on a Sunday, are they “dropouts” or are they spectators at local races?
Current interest is all people that are running 206, mini, micro, etc.
I honestly can’t tell you an exact reason behind lack of shifter entries, but a lot of talk is usually circled to lack of a junior program for a bit.
The current class structure in the United States is definitely single speed heavy and pushed that way. The progression is presented as micro>mini>KA Jr>KA Sr>X30 and shifter is just there as the “I want to be badass” class.
Got it thanks! I wouldn’t also discount the other factor, when you are saying “pushed that way”. When I moved to US, I had shops literally trying to push me away from shifter, flat out refusing a sale and I’m sure I’m not alone in this. Support is the other big factor, you see it in this forum too when people post for the first time things like “where do I start with this” or questions on basic maintenance…there is very little info around, compared to single speed. So education/de-mystification I think is a big thing, somehow there is this perception that a KZ is this crazy rocketship with a NASA-grade engine ready to blow up in your face (or blow up your wallet) when in reality it’s much much simpler than that. I don’t think these aspects will be cured with an engine or class…can be marketed that way though
My fear is that what people say one thing, but the reality is that they have other excuses\reasons on the backburner. Sometimes they’re not even aware of it themselves.
Only one way to know for sure though…
It’s only simple when you’ve acquired the knowledge though and they ARE high performance engines that most people do not understand. Stuff like “I ran 40:1 in my motocross bike… should be fine in a gokart”.
Seasoned karters forget how much they’ve learned over time. Exponentially so when it comes to two stroke classes. I do agree with redirecting newcomers away from (at least 125) shifters. While a small handful do well, there’s probably 10 times as many that sold up because they bit off more than they could chew.
Maybe it’s time for a shifter kart specific book… @Eric_Gunderson1 ?
I was in this camp prior to purchasing a KZ myself and really taking some time to learn the engine. The quality and ease of operation is for sure misunderstood. I’ve find that with the TM it’s pretty forgiving even if you’re flirting with the edge of race jetting. The engines still run great even if jetting quite rich.
Owning a high-end motor has also given me an appreciation for respecting the recommended service intervals, mostly because I don’t want my fancy motor to end up in a million pieces. In my experience people over-emphasize trying to eek out an extra “x” hours on any engine type, as opposed to treating it like scheduled maintenance. Trying to take a race engine beyond the recommended service intervals is a sure fire way to end up with a bill that’s much bigger than it would have been has you swapped that piston or rod kit.
With any engine, if you take care of it, it’ll take care of you, and modern KZ’s are no exception.
I see, we only had Micro, Mini and X30 here so most people just passed their kids to X30 Jr after Mini, though some first made their kids practice KT100 for a little while
We’ve had discussions about this at Rock Island too… and will watch with support efforts by SIRA and Musgrave… but likely not incorporate them this year. Like James, we hear comments about shifters beaing too expensive, which can be true at the top level. But let’s face it, if you’re moving from a 100cc or Briggs 206, they are A LOT of physical work to drive and its takes time to get good at it. So starting young with less HP and moving up seems to make a lot of sense. It’s really not unlike what has made Briggs and Ignite so popular. And let’s face it, a lot of people in karting to get into motorsports WANT to be able to shift… but without having to spend a small fortune and beating themselves up doing it. Let us know how it’s going Matt!
I think I have a place to punch out plates pretty quick so we can test multiple sizes back to back to back and get it figured out pretty quick.