Caster or Camber for grip?

Make and model of chassis
Energy Kinetic (2014)
I need help with
Whether to dial in front end grip adjusting camber or castor.

What I’ve tried so far
So ive done a few test and tunes at my local track because that’s all we can do currently. I’m using old tires from last year. My best times when the track was grippy were set with one rotation of camber and about one box of neg camber on my snipers.

I just finished a session today where i kept everything the same but I removed the +1 castor** and set it neutral and found that I had no front end grip, the track was definitely greener than last time. The change in castor is pretty dramatic in terms of feel, and definitely harder on the arms/hands, but not to the point where I tire. I felt like I had more g’s being pulled through fast corners. Should I try and ad grip in the front by adding more positive camber first, and use castor as a dramatic change? Am I slowing myself down with the castor and the dramatic change in cornering forces, ie is looser faster?

So you were using one increment of negative camber, and you removed it and felt like you lost front grip?

Generally:

Negative camber for slower rate of inside rear wheel lift, slightly lighter steering, pointier in fast corners.

Positive camber for heavier steering, more apex grip, slightly slower steering feel.

More caster for faster rate of inside rear wheel lift, sharper turn-in.

Less caster for slower rate of inside rear wheel lift, slower turn-in.

Looser is not faster necessarily, unless you are already experiencing too much “grip”. I think the first question you should ask yourself is, “what is the kart doing?” What are you trying to fix with the handling?

Camber is generally a pretty small change in the overall feeling of the kart, whereas caster is much more noticeable, as you said. I don’t really use camber to change the balance of the kart too much, I prefer to use it as a fine tuning tool to dial in the front end feel, after I’ve gotten the balance pretty close.

If you’re looking for more front grip, playing with track widths first is a good idea. It’s easier and there are less variables at play. When I’m making adjustments, I try to pick the adjustment that will have the least amount of side effects first. Things like caster or an axle change for example, will have several knock-on effects besides their primary effect.

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Sorry @tjkoyen I made a typo.removing the increment of caster made my front end just feel like it was washing out. Thanks for the tips. I’m going back tomorrow and I’ll try to dial it in slowly. Front track width seems to be a double edged sword where wider makes it pointy on entry but pushes a bit more mid corner, and narrower seems to ad mid corner grip. That’s how it feels any how.

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Hello @tjkoyen , could you please help me to understand why/how camber affects rate of rear lift?

On a typical eccentric caster/camber pill, putting negative camber in removes a small amount of caster as well, so that slows down lift a bit. It also reduces the front tire contact patch so the front doesn’t grip as aggressively.

Kart: CRG KT-2 with ROK VLR 100. Track: Momentum/fast (slowest turn green track 35-40 mph)
Cub racing minimum weight: 370 lbs.
Question: When discussing camber, is it on the stand OR on the track with driver seated? On the stand I set 1mm negative on the sniper grid (i.e., down one “dot” from neutral). This same set-up on the track with driver seated results in 5mm negative.
I try to set camber to get a “flat” tire surface on the outside front tire in turns; I’m assuming I’m getting the maximum grip out of the tire this way. Best I can tell, I get a very good grain pattern all the way across the tire with this set-up.

Having the eccentric pill adjuster both on the top and bottom of the C pillar can correct this right?
So you could be more precise in adjusting camber and caster?

Speaking of the top and bottom adjuster, my 2015ish OTK has the eccentric pill only on the top of the spindle. Is it possible to replace the bottom center pill with a bottom eccentric pill or can it only be done on the newer chassis? Was this standard for kosmic karts of the early 2010s or did the previous owner of my kart switch out the bottom eccentric with a bottom center pill at some point?

I usually set it on the stand and assume it will pick up a bit more negative on the ground with the driver in it.

Yes, but you lose a bit more caster still by offsetting it. Not a huge deal.

Stock baseline out-of-the-box is standard pill on bottom, eccentric on top, going back years. So you can buy another eccentric for the bottom, no problem. You can also buy smaller or bigger increments of offset pills too, if you want more or less caster/camber range.

Does the OTK accentric pills also fit other makes for example Birel?

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Birel, at least modern ones, are their own stupid size of 23mm. Most others are 22mm.

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