In my rental league, so far three boys bought 2-strokes. Some of the older guys seem inspired, too.
How long they can race these is anyone’s guess. I’m thinking the parents assume that they are off the hook within 2 years (college).
For sure. DKC near me does the same. They have there basic rental karts with Honda four-strokes and laden with bumpers, torque converters and hard tires. They also have Rotax Max and DD2 karts you can rent. Also with bumpers. On the up side, you can also rent an LO206 and a VLR100 that is in proper race fashion (much lighter and not all the extra tire protection). It is how they pay the bills! What I am suggesting is not just renting for a session, but for the Race Day/Weekend. That’s Practice, Qualifying, Heats and Final. The couple of tracks around here will typically allow a few hours of practice before Qualifying begins. That certainly ups the seat time. For an added fee, there could be Practice days prior to the event as well. I mean its not Free, but it doesn’t have to be a $5k commitment just to try it out.
To a point, yes. If you take into account that entry level karts classes tend to also have lower cost of running, you can make a logical connection between the two given their larger field sizes versus the more costly classes with smaller fields. At least at the local level. Like most things, it takes the shape of a pyramid with the volume of the lower levels making up the base and shrinks as you rise up to the pinnacles of the sport. Given the multitude of classes, there are relatively clear paths of challenge for your skills and desires to pursue.
Back when I was a kid, it was BMX racing. Dedicated tracks, sponsors and the like. Many times when MX came to the big arena in our area, they would put on an exhibition race of the BMX bikes on the MX track. Granted it was rubbish trying to pedal around the comparatively long and rutted MX track, but it gave the crowd a sample. The next season had several more participants in the BMX races.
Given the option, I think parents might be more inclined to Karting over MX from a simple safety perception. Grant you MX safety gear has come a long way since then, but something about having four wheels, bumpers/side pods and metal tubing between you and the next racer might be a little more familiar and comforting to the average person. Cost is relatively on point for either.
Something I failed to mention before is that the ball sports are also potentially more enculturated because of their accessibility, which is manifest in the form of public school activities/PE. We all played soccer, football, baseball, etc formally or informally in school. Karting doesn’t get that kind of early, publicly supported exposure.
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We definitely have challenges, but I also think there’s a lot of opportunities that haven’t really been leveraged.
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Without pushing it as a “stepping stone”, the increased access to F1 racing & its rising Stateside popularity is a potentially good thing for karting, IMO.
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I agree. I also think Indy does a good bringing up karting as a base for learning good driving skills. I have noticed several top level racing drivers branding their own karts and drumming up publicity. It helps keep the idea that Karting something happening now and not just in their past.
On a side note, what if karting or a form of it were used as driver training for teenagers prior to getting a license? It teaches great reflexes and hand, eye, foot coordination. Plus it helps with driving in close proximity to other vehicles at high speeds while avoiding contact. Not really the same, but just a thought. lol
Took my niece indoor karting with Nick, once. I think it was useful for her in that she was skeptical of her ability to pull it off, but to her surprise, did.
She was fairly sure she didn’t want to get a drivers license. I think her little karting excursion helped her get a little confidence to start to learn to drive a real car. She eventually got the license.
Wow, can’t believe I missed this! I love a good grow the sport bull session.
First, I’m with Christian Fox about the current state of open motors in karting. Personally, I think our sport’s draw is the fact that driver talent and ability can shine in a much higher percentage than car racing.
Many watch F1 for the pinnacle of engineering and innovation – to watch the fastest cars in the world.
Many watch Supercross for crazy jumps, crashes, and aggressive passes.
Many watch Indycar and NASCAR for the spectacle of entertainment and on-track battles, rivalries, etc.
Karting has a much more entertaining on-track product than Indycar and NASCAR combined when you have a single engine make format, IMO. 20 minute mains, and where in most forms of car racing equipment disparity means its rare you get a last lap battle and often that one car pulls away, karting is the opposite: it’s rare when one driver pulls away, and often that you get a last lap battle. We need to lean into that and build up the personalities in the fight. No different than character building in a TV show or Movie to get the audience invested.
Truthfully, it’s what inspired me to do the Kart Chaser videos. I’m still working on making them better and tweaking them to bring out the driver’s personalities more, but the goal is to individualize them beyond their helmet colors and sticker kits so you can actually find a guy or girl you like to rally behind.
F1 is even pushing towards what karting already has – trying to dissipate aerowash effects to induce closer racing, trying to put budget caps in place to level the playing field, and with Liberty Media, trying to build up the drivers as individual characters in the sport that fans can rally behind.
I’d bet every dollar I had that I could get a casual fan to be invested in the meteoric rise of Marjin Kremers as a funny, young personality in the KZ world much easier than I could in the engine wars of IAME vs Vortex vs TM vs etc.
When it comes to harvesting the interest into actual customers, that’s a whole separate issue that I’ve actually chatted a bit with @KartingIsLife on. I’ve got some ideas for the US that I’d like to push, so we’ll see how they go.
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Agreed. People stories are way more interesting than engine politics.
Look at a sport like drifting. Their media celebrates the stories of the drivers and makes them personalities, rather than highlighting fights or which engine combo is the best.
I mean sure, you’ll see people bagging on Facebook whether LS swaps are better than SRs, but you’ll see so many people at events with phones, making content and sharing stories.
Karting needs to own it’s own narrative and share it’s racing value. Rather than other motorsports regulating it to a “stepping stone”, when they know little about the sport and the personalities in it.
We keep talking about what a great racing product karting is, but on the whole we don’t spread the word with the tools we have.
Can’t have one without the other. The variance in engine means you have different cars with different characteristics which allows for a more engaging view as the spectator. Peple don’t notice it directly, but it is there. The commentators will often reference the modding of the engine and so on in the commentary. It’s something to talk about and get the viewer engaged
“next up is joe dritfty mc drift, and you HAVE to hear what sound his Rotary engine makes, my god”
“Well Jerry Slidey Slider has worked really hard this year. His V8 twin turbo hits 1000hp+, it’s a beast, but he’s really struggled taming it this year, he says he’s made some adjustments, lets see how he goes”
It’s layers and layers of narrative.
Oh and obviously we can’t not talk about Ken Block, who very much puts forward the car being the star in much of his video content.
It is what we choose, it is our preferences that shape us as personalities and people. Because drifting is particularly an ‘expressive’ form of motorsport, I can’t imagine how dull it would be if all the drivers were forces to drive the same cars.
When you talk about karting stories, well all the best ones comes from engine tuners (the real ones)… Like for example this year at the OK Worlds everyone thinks KR have found something, no one knows what it is. Can they be beaten? Can Turney and OTK grab the world Championship when KR are the favorites? What about Travisnuttu, made another change and is now at Parolin, Can Parolin win their first world title since, I don’t know when. Oh on the subject of Parolin, they use to build the Revolution. What an odd kart that was
Wouldn’t it be cool to see how that design compares to today. Maybe if a top driver was racing it… man wouldn’t that be interesting.
There is no Marjin Kremer without the engines and chassis wars. It is the manufacturers who hire the best drivers to show off their gear. Chassis and engine wars are an essential part of the sport, because without them the drivers have no value. It is the heritage of the World Championship, the greats of the sport, the wars, it’s THAT that makes it interesting. You’re trading on the history of the sport, its heritage, which is chassis and engines wars.
Without all that it becomes like the Rotax Grand Finals, which for all its sporting qualities, is an amateur competition. BRP ain’t paying you to race (in fact you end up having to buy stuff you break)
Here’s an example anyway
Australia young man wins the world motorcycle title with rise through ranks where every rides same bikes
vs
Australian struggled like mad. Family moved to UK to race, lived on caravan on farm. Eventually made his way to pinnacle class with many struggles getting a competitive bike. He managed to get a deal with Ducati. The bike was an absolute beast and no one thought it had a chance at a title. In fact he tamed said beast beating the next Ducati riders by 20+ seconds plus. Not just that he took on the legend and force of the sport. Rossi and Yamaha. It cam to a head at Barcelona where the Ducati had the top end but not the cornering. The battle between the two was immense as the two traded positions. The Ducati had the speed, the Yam had the cornering. etc… etc…
…
Karting’s modern problem, especially with the top end, is we’ve kinda become numb to the top-level and thus aren’t engaging with the sport in the same way we did back in the day when we had belt driven rotary valves etc… A lot of the variation has homogonised a bit. We don’t tell the stories like we once did. it’s also incredible insular now.
The fact we have multiple manufacturers is something to be celebrated, not derided. It’s what gives the sport colour, it’s what makes the sport diverse.
I know to a certain extent the north italian factories have monopolised the top end of the sport, but it’ll be a dark day when we remove employment opportunities from young people who want to become engineers in motorsport.
So 60% of Autosport’s last 10 videos is purely development focused. Not just that the worst performing videos are ones that are purely driver focused.
Another example. Blown diffusers 136k… best British F1 drivers 12k.
It’s not a scientific analysis, but the equipment, the mechanics, the differences, the innovations, they are huge drivers for the sport in terms of its success. We are all now waiting to see if Hamilton will be the most successful driver of all time. If F1 was designed any other way, I don’t think he’d be in that position, he wouldn’t have the influence he has now because he wouldn’t have the might of Mercedes Benz behind him.
Respectfully, I get it, but I disagree with you here.
F1’s upside is the technological innovations and the equipment.
F1’s downside is typically boring on-track product. That’s why they have to hype up a single pass, because even just overtaking is rare.
NASCAR, INDYCar, and yes, Karting, are all substantially behind F1 when it comes to innovation. So I think trying to hype up that aspect of the sport is silly, because we’ll lose the battle to F1. But we can beat F1 in the on-track action and excitement by having a much more level playing field, and more than just 1 team in contention for the win.
Yes, I understand that manufacturers need to support drivers to sell equipment. In no way am I advocating for spec chassis.
I’d much rather the sport take a look towards American grassroots oval racing, especially events like the Chili Bowl. We don’t NEED engine manufacturers to spend money on factory drivers, when all we need are a couple thousand fans to sell tickets to and then we can throw up some purse money.
At the SKUSA Pro Tour, I know multiple drivers who were able to leverage free rides in X30 Senior based on the fact it was $2,500 to win each Final, and there were 6 Finals in the 2 week super season in New Castle.
Imagine if you had a two-day show that paid $10k to win and made it profitable to enter if you placed in the Top 5.
You’d have plenty of sponsored drivers getting paid or free rides entered in. And you’d have a level playing field.
So, if we have 3 overtakes in a Grand Prix and it’s between Hamilton and Verstappen, that’ll go around the world in seconds. 20 battles in Indycar and Nascar? That’ll go largely unnoticed because the stakes are lower.
See this is missing from the whole thing. I think in America you are ahead of the game with regard to making a lot more of the narratives, but I’ve watched for the first time in years a lot of IndyCar racing… and while there is more passing… it’s of less value. It’s OK racing, but Herta winning, or Will power… great… ok … so what?
At the end of the day Penske vs Andretti motorsport isn’t Mercedes VS Ferrari because all the Indy teams are doing is set up work, they’re not building the cars. The same depth of investment isn’t there. That’s why F1 is down the road in viewing metrics even with worse racing. There’s more to be a fan of and that makes the racing, even if metrically less, more meaningful. That elevates emotional investment, and has bigger emotional pay offs.
That’s not to say I think F1 has the right formula. The V6 Turbos are a disaster and the dependence on aero is a complex issue to solve because of dirty air. I think when you have multiple manufacturers you need simplicity of technical regulations. Complexity is a big problem. In this regard karting is pretty much the ‘perfect’ formula.
Take Iglesias’s win. That was Formula K’s win too. That meant something. There’s not just a driver winning, but a chassis designed, a welder, a team boss, an engine manufacturer, and engine tuner… karting is just at a point where the media has died by and large so the story isn’t being told.
Anyway I’ve made that point as clear as I can because I will go around in circles.
With regard to prize money. I am not fan a competitor based prize money, but spectator yes. If you can make that happen I’d love to see it.
I think it all boils down to really, is Karting a path way to F1 or is it a sport to itself?
In a world where karting is a pathway, (which is how just about every governing body seems to promote karting) open racing makes no sense at all. Spending ridiculous amounts of money developing engines and chassis makes no sense if its a pathway. If it is just way of getting experience before stepping to formula cars what is the point of pushing boundaries.
However if open racing is considered to be the top of karting and karting IS a sport of its own, it absolutely has merit because we all want to see the best engine, chassis and drivers going at it.
But I don’t think it has any place in the lower tiers of karting, spec racing IS cheaper and more understandable to the average joe.
I think governing bodies are not doing enough to develop our sport as a place that can be a life commitment, without the need to go to the “next level”.
Open racing should be promoted as the pinnacle of our sport and the pathway to any other place should be thrown away.
Open racing should be seen as the place that beginner looks to and is blown away by the talent and the engineering. Kids should be saying they I want to be the next Dave Sera, or Marjan Kremmers, not “I want to be in formula 1”
Agreed.
Make it even easier. Not everyone who races karts wants to make a career as a paid racing driver.
Some of us just want to race cool shit, get better as drivers and get tons of seat time.
Enter karting. Voila.
Not so sure. The fact is, what karting does bring to the table technically is reasonably impressive, (particularly in the 125cc segments, IMO), & especially in light of the performance. And unlike F1 tech, it’s far more financially accessible. Doesn’t have to be bleeding edge to be cool &/or interesting. The performance is there. I have yet to show a phone captured vid of local club races to someone who wasn’t impressed with what they saw.
Don’t agree with that in the slightest, in fact I think it’s largely the opposite.
Firstly we don’t have spec-chassis by and large, so for some reason that kinda works. With regard to engines. I know a competitor who bought about 20+ X30 engines (it may have been many more). Literally bought every single one of the fastest engines so that their competitors would find it harder to find a good engine. They spent upwards of £250k racing a single-spec class. In competitive arenas single-spec racing allows monopolisation of performance like you wouldn’t believe. That’s just here in the UK maybe, I don’t know
In addition to that the single-manufacturers tend to release updated engines that ‘level the playing field’ every year or so, which kinda forces everyone to buy a new engine, which kinda defeats the point. The amount of new engines being sold does not seem to correlate with the growth of the sport (generally the metrics are downwards). It would suggest current competitors/teams buying more engines.
I have just spoken to the father of one of the most talented young drivers in the country who is totally exhausted mentally and financially and they’ve only ever raced spec-classes. He was spending crazy amounts in spec-classes.
Now, when we had Formula A in the UK, I knew guys who races at the highest levels (British and World) who would buy a couple of TM K11bs for thousand a go and then go them tuned… and apart from pistons… they were good for the highest levels of competition. Sure each tuner and each engines had different characteristic that made it all a bit spicey, the actual spend? Not that bad. Naturally you had your big spenders… I won’t deny that. I think simplicity and lack of rev limiters was the main benefit… KF did kinda come in like a wrecking ball. Technical specs are hugely important I won’t deny that.
Spec-racing works as you say because it ‘less complicated’ for the average Joe to understand at first. but then… you go from having one all encompassing kart class format… to 5 or 6 because spec-racing by its very natures causes the expanse of classes. And if it doesn’t it creates Frankenstein classes like TaG instead which are just as bad. Everyone says there are too many classes… no one wants to admit is that’s a direct consequence of single-spec classes. It’s only less complicated if everyone in a country buys into one-single-spec package… which they almost never do.
35 years ago if you wanted to start karting it was easy. I’d say “do 100 Britain, because that’s all you can do. A wright with a IAME TT27 is a good place to start”. Now the you have to find the postcode of the person, then research what classes are popular it their local area… whether they have national aspirations… it’s the main reason why I don’t make “how to start karting!” videos… its a ballachingly complicated and mind-numbing.
So I don’t think we can say it’s categorically cheaper nor less complicated. I can’t argue against the market, it gets what it wants… but I will push back on expense and complication. There are always unintended consequences that belie the surface level benefits people believe are there.
I’d say that spec racing seems a bit more approachable on the onset, but it doesn’t make it any less expensive. “Spec” is never “Spec”, and even if the engine formula is frozen, you’ll have people spending ridiculous amounts of money for a small advantage.
It’s how you get $100,000 Spec Miata programs in SCCA.
Hi Alan,
I would like to point out that IAME has been building thousands of X30s for several years now. The thought of someone buying 20 engines to deprive the competition of all, or even some of these supposedly “good” engines, is not a realistic plan for winning more races. Everybody is free to do what they want with their money, and if they want to park 20 engines somewhere, we can’t stop them.
However, the parity of X30 engines is on display every weekend in countless races around the world. Just this weekend at the IAME Euro series in Mariembourg the top 10 qualifiers were within one tenth of a second!
In reality, the engine is just one factor in winning races. While perfection is not attainable in life, many races are being won with an X30 “out of the box”. There is a tendency to blame the engine for someone’s losses, when often the chassis, the driver or the setup are to blame.
Furthermore, these days the larger teams conduct more testing days, well in advance of the important races, and have accumulated so much knowledge about telemetry, setup changes according to different tracks or weather conditions, that the possibility of just showing up and winning at a high level of competition is low. Practice makes perfect, and if you drive three times more often than your competitor, raw talent may not make enough of a difference.
However, the reality is that if you have a top chassis, know how to drive, know how to setup your equipment, you can be competitive in an X30 class. You can race with the same equipment in a local race or a national race.
There is no way that can happen if you allow more than one engine manufacturer. Factory engines keep improving at every weekend, and very few can have access to them. Even with unlimited budget, if on a given day you are not using Factory “ABC” equipment, you are out of luck…
While the market is not always right, in this case it largely is. In the case of X30, it is cheaper and less complicated than an OPEN ENGINE formula. But the engine cost is only a fraction of the total cost and complication, and in the case of X30, often a minor one. What is the expense in tires, chassis and parts, flying and staying in hotels, telemetry, practice days etc etc?
I think these stories of people buying up engines do a disservice to the sport, and it is absolutely not part of the X30 success story. Karting is complicated enough that we don’t need to scare people away with unrealistic stories of needing to have 20 engines. For somebody new to the sport, the learning curve is steep and often humbling, and that is where we need to offer help, by supporting the local clubs and events.