Engines in kid kart

1

There has been some issues at my local track and trying to get some outside insight on the issue. So we have about 8 kid karts in our class all comers except 2 are running LO206s. They supposedly have slides in them, but they are still clearly faster than the comers out there.

These karts can close a 3-4 kart gap in the shortest straight away and easily pull out of corners and just all around out perform the comers in every aspect. One of the karts is even a cadet frame, it isn’t even a kid kart frame. Personally I see this as unsafe and flat out cheating.

Our track is allowing it, at the anger of the comer parents. I don’t want to make a huge stink about it, but I also see a safety issue with this as well. One of the karts weighs in at about 235lbs, which is about 85lbs over every other kart out there, with the exception of the other LO206.

The reason for them running the 206s is because “we were sick of loosing” and they are also claiming a comer is outlawed, which it isn’t, it just has a very skilled 7 year old behind the wheel. I also look at racing at this young age as a chance to teach basics as well as the ins and outs of winning/loosing and racing in general.

I don’t feel that we should be teaching our kids, “well if you can’t win off skill, just get a bigger motor that’s out of class and win that way”. This doesn’t teach our kids anything about working hard and practicing and honing their skills, it just teaches them if you can’t win just cheat.

Also my child is dead last so it’s not that I’m in the running for points or anything, I just see this as cheating, a safety issue, and just a complete lack of sportsmanship.
We have all request all the karts be teched to sort out the whole outlaw issue, but it never seems to happen.

TLDR: Am I just being a grump about LO206s in our kid kart class or are the comer parents justified in their stance that our class says “comer 51 only” and should only be comers, no exceptions.

2

I understand why that would be frustrating. But my opinion is that as soon as you start taking Kid Kart racing seriously at all, you’re headed down a frustrating path. I would view Kid Kart races as practice days with a focus on seeing how a kid likes racing, and getting them to focus on the basics of driving and kart control, rather than having any focus on results.

That being said, your safety concerns seem valid. Having one kart out there that’s a fair bit heavier and faster is going to be a concern when we are dealing with 5-year olds.

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3

In our club OVKA we run both together but they are scored as separate classes.

4

A few of the kids are getting discouraged because they are being blown by a kart going 10mph faster and there is nothing they can do about it. No amount of skill or line is going to over come that. It’s getting to the point where some don’t even want to race anymore because it’s lost it’s fun. Kid or adult anyone might start to have doubt and be discouraged if there is clearly no chance at all.

5

Is your track a short/windy track? If so, the 206, even a perfectly legal one, is going to have quite the advantage. My local track is open to all engines (comer, honda, and 206) and we have this same drama. Honda parents gripe about Comers, comer parents gripe about 206s, etc, etc. I just laugh cause when they come off the track, the kids all take off to go play in the grass together and the dads are yelling at each other.

There is no right answer to this. Personally, I love the idea of having as many kids there as possible. Who cares what is best? Who cares which kid wins? Lets just get as many kids out there having fun as possible.

Now, the safety aspect of it can be a little more serious. You need to voice your conerns to the race director/track owner (politely and respectfully). Our track implemented a rule of no cadet chasses for this exact reason (weight and size). I think even their insurance mandated it.

Last thing, I’ll say. I have to agree with TJ. If you are taking KK any more serious than “lets go have fun” than you are already in trouble. My KKer wins some night and finishes last some night. But no matter what, the last thing I say to him before he puts his visor down is “I love you and have fun.” Thats all you can do at this age.

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6

That’s my point though. I don’t think Kid Karts should be about winning or the result. It should be about going out and having fun and turning laps.

If kids are getting discouraged because they feel like they don’t have a chance to win, I think that means there is emphasis being put on the result rather than the experience. It’s an exhibition class.

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7

I’m not teaching her that winning is important, she wants to win. She wants to do well. All I do is tell her in order to do better she needs to practice and work hard at it. In order to win you have to work harder than those you are competing against, given it’s a level playing field.

8

At my home track, we don’t even score kid karts which is how it should be imo. They run all 4 sessions we do, but every one of theirs is a 10 minute session, no timing. It’s kid karts, nobody is making a professional ride from it.

Regarding engines, the 206 is definitely at an advantage, especially at a shorter or tighter track, over the Comers. I believe the Comer actually has a higher top speed than the 206 with the spec gearings they use, but if the track is small enough then you’ll never be able to use it.

Realistically, the Comer is the better kid kart engine in terms of driver development. In the 206 all the driver has to do is push the gas and the bottom end will pull them out of the corner, whereas a Comer actually requires proper lines and momentum conservation comparatively.

In terms of safety, the 85 pound weight difference is a concern. I’d be bringing that up with the race director/owner/whoever, and the cadet chassis should not be allowed at all for the same reason. Especially if the class is Comer 51 only, these parents shouldn’t have even been able to try running a 206 KK package out there.

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9

This is the part that kinda frustrates me. Their website for the track states they follow all WKA rules for classes and restrictions. WKA specifically states kid karts is comer 51 only. If you’re going to say you follow the rules then actually follow the rules. With the current logic I’m just going to enter a tag kart in all the 206 classes, according to the current logic this would be fair and legal.

Our track is very condensed and extremely hard to keep momentum up.

10

Sounds like they are running 206 as the local option. But in that case, it should be gridded and classed separately. Our local track did a phased approach for the GXH50 before completely dropping the comer.

85lbs is a big difference though. As much as I hate to stir things up, I’d call the WKA head office and see what their thoughts are on this as they probably provide insurance.

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11

We kinda have a simular issue at my track. The cadet ranks are all mixed. “Everyone in the pool” sort of approach. So fathers with too much expenable cash are hopping up their kids engines. I see both sides of the argument, but as a father it must be frustrating to watch your kid lose to cheaters. But if you ain’t cheatin’ you ain’t trying! (Quote from the Owner of MGM chassis manufacturer) and half the crew chief’s in NASCAR :rofl:

Never seeing a Comer in action, my question is, are they really that slow?

12

Yes, they really are that slow.

If the difference in straightaway speed is that large, they need to be started with a gap and scored separately. Please please don’t make me wait through two separate heats of kid karts every race, PLEASE!

13

We run two kid kart classes… Novice and Regular.

It’s not a big deal. They are the future of the sport and if we need two separate KK classes, then so be it.

Hell, give them a class for each engine if you gotta. Not wanting to sit through two separate runs of kid karts beacaue they bore you or something is short sighted and selfish.

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14

This might be a topic of it’s own….

I’ve always challenged this mantra considering how small of a percentage come back after the parents stop paying the bills. Has to be less than 5% that come back?

Subjectively/anecdotally when I think back to the 200+ racers around the track at the time when I was a teen, I only know three of that race under their own wallet now that we’re in our 30’s/40s

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15

Regardless, many of them stay thru the cadet/junior ranks. That’s money to the tracks, series, kart shops, teams, etc.

Anyone saying the kid kart classes aren’t worth extra track time for a class split due to speed/safety/parity concerns is still a dick.

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16

There’ll be a massive speed differential between kid karts even if the chassis, engines, and mechanical preparation are identical. These kids are learning to drive for the first time!

If you want to separate the 206es from the Comers, then you can do it by waving the green flag at the 206es, then three seconds later waving another green flag at the Comers. Adding another half hour to the time your corner workers, starter, and race director are out in the sun because two more heats and a feature just went on the schedule isn’t a winner to me.

17

I think that’s easy to say if you’re not running the club and having to balance the expectations of all racers.

As a parent of a kid kart racer safety is a concern of course, but adding a race (note, not gridding separately during same race) is probably the lowest of my expectations.

18

I’m not advocating splitting the class everywhere.

I’m not even suggesting it for the OP.

I’m also not saying it would work at any track other than the one I race at.

It’s what we do at our track based on skill and no one has a problem with it.

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19

Do you want to branch off for this?

Prospect A is 6 years old. They’re interested in racing, slide their bicycle around the yard, their parents go in knowing that the sport will cost a bit more than travel 'ball…

Prospect B is 11 years old. They’re just off of an OK season of motocross where their parents saw a terrible wreck and decided to move on to four wheels. A huge motorsports fan already, reasonably fast and a bit wild on a practice day in a rented Junior kart…

Prospect C is 19 years old, mechanically skilled, second year apprentice, still living at home, wanted to race for years but could never convince their parents, just got the brakes fixed on the 206…

Prospect D is 23 years old, just out of university with a professional degree, autocrossed a few times on lousy tires, won an indoor league resoundingly, shopped around and got a used TaG…

Prospect E is 35 years old, parent of a kid karter, has some room in the trailer, knows what to look for on a 206, always wanted to try karting and was good indoors but never really got the chance…

Prospect F is 53 years old, raced a Miata for a few seasons and a few Lemons races, kids not particularly interested but out of their hair, already has a truck…

How long do you think each of Prospects A, B, C, D, E, and F last in this sport, and for the shop what’s the area under the curve as far as frequency of racing and expenditure?

20

Yes. If you’ve got more than a dozen kid karts, and both Kid Kart A and Kid Kart B have 5+ karts, and there’s a clear laptime line to split them with, why not? But to have a two-kart Kid Kart A race with one clearly faster than the other…