@tankyx you really think Sainz would be in F1 if his dad wasn’t Carlos Sainz Sr? I’m not saying he’s a pay driver. He’s clearly very talented. But even some of the best drivers on that list probably benefitted from money over talent at some rung on their way up the ladder. Somewhere along the way, there was probably a better talent who lost to those guys in karts or F4 or some other feeder series because they didn’t have the right engine builder or the right car or the right coach or the right travel/test budget or the right sponsorship or the right father with connections. That’s racing.
1 Like
It’s impossible to say if the drivers at the highest level are actually the most talented, because 95% of drivers are automatically filtered out once you get past your club karting or local circle track.
Professional race car drivers are likely the most talented of the 5% that can actually afford to race at that level.
It’s not an either/or situation any longer. You can’t get to the top by having talent OR financial backing. You must have both, and specifically the financial backing.
I’ve seen plenty of average drivers with financial backing that can work there way up the ladder because they are constantly given opportunities and can commit their lives to racing at an early age.
1 Like
It’s a very valid take is what it is lol. Would you be willing to bet your net worth that if everyone on the planet was able to solely focus on racing and had infinite backing that the names on that list would be at the top of the time sheets if we stuck everyone in the same car to gauge their ability? I wouldn’t.
I get that they are super talented guys behind the wheel. Not debating that, but are they the most talented if you remove the money? I am not so sure about that is all I’m saying. I don’t think F1 is a reflection of the top drivers in the world and I don’t think it’s a reflection of the pinnacle of motorsport anymore.
In the conversation of talent or money I think money wins with regards to who gets a seat. It’s a business first. This is why a lot of driver’s like Ross Bentley have said they weren’t the best in the car they just understood the marketing side of it better.
Just saw some BS F1 academy show on Netflix but I clicked it. Oh look, Lia Block is in the conversation to be the first woman in F1. Because we all know how talented she is. Surely this has nothing to do with the giant media empire her father built and the $200M that was likely left in her name. Nooooo. That’s just stupid to think 
1 Like
To have seen it first hand and competed against him in karting, yes he would be in F1
1 Like
You raced against Sainz? That is really cool! Can you tell any stories? What was he like in karts? Did you ever beat him?
I am from the Gasly/Sainz/Albono/Dennis generation, I was driving in KF3 back then in the French Champ and did the EU Championship.
Was I ever good ? Not really, unless it was raining 
Grand Prix Open Karting - Kartcom
Basically I started in Cadetti in 2007 (after a few years in rentals) with some promising results, and went straight to International Junior karting, which was a stupid decision in hindsight.
People that were racing with us were hyping my parents a lot because of my level and progression after a single season. I was not able to cope with pressure and lost all confidence. This fact, associated to the fact I was running a chassis I didn’t like, meant I was almost last all the time.
A typical race weekend would go this way :
Tanguy : is 1.5 to 2 seconds off pace
Dad to mechanic : “What is happening ? Why is he slow ?”
Mechanic to Dad : “Your kid is slow, that is what is happening. Kart is fine”
Dad and Mechanic to Tanguy : “The kart is fine, you are just slow, go faster”
Tanguy : finish the races still 1.5 sec a lap slower
Tanguy : goes back home crying and demoralized
Yeah, I don’t have nice memories of these times. Funnily enough, before my last race, my dad still decided to go for another mechanic and new chassis/engine. On the training day I was 1 second faster almost directly. But my mind was already shattered from 1.5 year of constant abuse during race weekend and poor results that I couldn’t perform anyway.
As for anecdotes, well :
- Gasly would have performed a lot better if he wasn’t running that shit Sodi chassis.
- Some other official Sodi drivers just stopped using it even if it was free, and decided to join and pay non official teams that were running OTK chassis. They were several tenths faster
- Even within the official Sodi team they would use OTK chassis. Basically scrap the green paint, paint it red, solder a Sodi chassis plate with the ID number on the OTK chassis.
- I was an introvert with a huge imposter syndrome, so I wouldnt interact with people much. But many of those kids were genuinely nice, and it was one of the rare place I was not bullied.
- Jules Bianchi was immensely nice, he was his little brother Tom’s mechanic in the French Championship.
- Brandon Maisano was destined to be in F1, supported by Ferrari. Decided to burn the money given by Ferrari into parties and girls.
8 Likes
Getting to F1 isn’t just money. You DO need to have the talent as well. Red Bull and Ferrari aren’t tossing their junior academy money to drivers who suck. Well, they are, but they are never letting those guys to get to the F1 grid.
If F1 isn’t the top drivers or top motorsport anymore, then what is?
I think one thing to consider is that driving in F1 has become so refined and precise that the drivers essentially become sort of ‘F1 specialists’. Operating an F1 car at the limit take a very unique set of driving skills these days. It isn’t about who can chuck the car around on the edge or who has the biggest set of cajones.
I don’t care what you’re racing, if you watch Verstappen go run a 20 lap stint in an F1 car on the biggest stage at some of the most difficult tracks in the world under the most pressure a driver can have, and all his laps are within a tenth, THAT is a world-class driver. Having also raced against a few guys on the F1 grid and many on the IndyCar grid, there are some talents that are otherworldly in both series that didn’t get there because of money.
A lot of these drivers are backed by big sponsors. How did they get those sponsors? By being world-class drivers. A few come from family money, that’s true.
Lia will not get to F1. She isn’t talented enough. The money is giving her a chance to try it out, but unless she makes a huge leap in performance she won’t ever be on the F1 grid. The open-wheel ladder filters a lot of the pay drivers out before they get to the top level.
Money gives you an opportunity, but talent is what gives you a career.
2 Likes
Holy crap @tankyx I can’t imagine the pressure of competing on that level and being told it’s all your fault. Thank you for sharing these stories.
Yeah I tend to agree, he was in jnrs when I was in KZ (when it was was called Super ICC). He was very good.
I would of put him in a category of could make it to F1. Not destined to make it like Leclerc, Verstappen, Bianchi.
Sounds like you started just as i stopped doing Europeans. I totally feel the introvert, huge imposter syndrome thing and when I was at Topkart we were going to take a tonykart and paint it blue lol. I also had a fast progression, and I got shifted up a class as soon as i started getting podiums. The difference for me which worked was I had a long term supportive mechanic who knew how to drive and teach me to drive.
My fathers technique was to tell me before the final if i didn’t finish in the top 5 we were done racing, but he was normally right and that motivation did improve my performance.
1 Like
I like Academy programs, but the one thing that annoys me about them (or maybe the cost of karting generally) is that you have to already be rich to race at the races where you’ll get noticed.
Very very occasionally someone gets supported by someone local to get them to the big races where they get noticed (Hamilton is an example, supported by Zip karts until Mclaren noticed him) but even that’s difficult now.
I think F1 Academy is a little confused. I don’t believe it’s got any intention of finding a F1 driver, I think its just trying to show little girls around the world that they could be racing at all. They’d also need to add power steering to F2 and F3 cars. It seems dumb to me you have to be stronger in F2 and F3 then F1.
2 Likes
Didn’t expect the official team to do that, I remember hearing from my father’s friend who went to France to work that the private team he was in put Sodi parts on a Tony Kart frame after painted them.
Yeah, recently for the new Academy Senior they sent a kid who is still at the back locally and he’s only there because (besides money) his coach has connections with the ASN, the same thing happened with the Junior driver who was selected two years ago, who never won a race at that point while the National X30 Junior Champion of that year was ignored, even though his father insisted to the ASN all the time.
Max… Rubbing is racing!
FIA: 10 second penalty!
But seriously, hard tires? I’d have him skip the change, putting him in first when everyone else pitted, and had him drive the wheels off trying to stay ahead.
2 Likes
Halfway through that series. Lia seems very nice, and had some great rally success. but there’s gotta be 20 girls in that age range in the US already driving karts/open when or even 2-seater road racing that would be doing better.
Oddly enough, it seems like the girl with the smallest budget has the most tallent in Abbi Pulling.
1 Like
Poor form by Max there when he basically just slammed George as he went by. Penalty warranted for that. However some blame has to be put on Red Bull for falsely asking him to give the place back when he got run wide in T1. That really sent Max over the boiling point. Max saw red and cost himself a boatload of championship points there. Just silly and unnecessary. The call for new hards sucked. They must’ve thought the current tire was at risk of running out of rubber otherwise I would agree; keep him on the warm used softs. The cold hard didn’t fire up and put him at a big disadvantage to the whole field.
Oscar looks stronger each weekend. Good bounce back to assert over Lando after last weekend.
And what a killer drive from Hulk! Dragged that turd of a car WAY higher than it deserves.
Passing Ferraris like.
2 Likes
10s penalty is way too lenient for what Max did. Should be a grid penalty for next race.
3 Likes
Nice result for McLaren and Charles! Oh and the Hulk:)
Safety car was out way to long, seems like they need to tighten up their protocol regarding the safety car. I know safety comes first but that made no sense.
Hamilton didn’t even tried to defend against Hulk 
1 Like
Lewis was so downbeat after the race. He is mentally checked out at the moment. Talking about “I learned nothing, no positives from the last three races” is such a negative outlook.
2 Likes
Sounds like my son after this weekend at TSRS Amarillo. 
Worst weekend at the track ever. Got slower instead of faster and ended in the medical tent for the first time (he’s fine).
As for the race…can we please put a muzzle on Nico…please…he annoys me to listen to even more than the biased British commentators.
Absolutely cannot believe what I saw from Verstappen. That is something I would expect of the young new driver, not the multi-time champ. Now if he and Russel were in a title fight, I could totally see a move like that being a calculated move even…but they aren’t. It was a purely juvenile and emotional reaction. Really bad look. Makes me a bit embarrassed to be a Max fan.
Hamilton seems to be proving many right. Either that he enjoyed the luxury of a car that was clearly the best on the grid but maybe he wasn’t, or that he is getting too old to keep doing this. Either way he hasn’t shown any fire about him once the Merc showed no pace and has done no better with the red stallions. Leclerc showing him up has given me bit of pleasure this year.
Felt bad for Albon. Showed so much pace on Saturday. Also nice to see Hulk drag that ugly green car up the order. Then Hadjar continues to exceed expectations.
At least this wasn’t a parade like last weekend!!!
3 Likes
@Chuck_Goodson what is the level of competition like in TSRS? Is it comparable to SKUSA/USPKS? ROK Florida Winter Tour? More like a highly competitive club race like Orlando Cup?
Are there any privateers finishing well or are the top 5 in every class all big budget national teams?