Hairpin turn in low hp kart

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

I can gas and brake, yes, but it is not recommended. It can be done and nothing will happen, but after like 30s or one minute I guess clutch will slip and engine will be damaged. I am powering out as early as possible but trying to minimize understeer.

I will be out on track as soon as I can and see what have I got after small break of 7 days. I guess nothing major but it will take a session or two to get below 49s. Ultimately, I am aiming for a track record, but I don´t think that will be possible this year…

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

Another weird session but a good result. 48.916s as a solid result in given conditions. I will get the video later on and I will ask a few questions after I upload it. Some weird stuff happened in hairpin and it took me 4-5 laps to get to the real pace overall. I would like to hear you out on both, but of course after I get some footage. Unfortunately, no time to talk, so much to do for school

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

Ok. Congrats on 48.x!

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

Here is the drive. Few positives and negatives, as well as some questions that popped up.

On a positive note, all the best sectors were very quick overall, even though it felt bad from my POV. Got the best S2 time or at least even to the best one if I count the relative mistake in my own timing. Absolute lap was 48.716s (all the best sectors), so again, the pace was there, just not connecting well.

On the other side, I was struggling with concentration and I could not focus enough and get that race mode turned on. It was a 7 day break since I was driving. I am sure this prolonged the time required to get in the zone again, in the following session after such break. Took me 5 laps to start doing more constant sector times. I was also struggling with the back end of the kart. Seat was to the back completely. Track was a bit damp and air humidity was 80% +, not helping. Also traffic. Lap 7 got disrupted, best S1 and S3.
Now to the questions. What can be done to such terrible rear sliding in hairpin? Was it conditions or me overdriving? How does it look like to you? Any advice for getting the right mindset quicker during weird sessions like this, anything to think of that can help?

Also, I could not see a thing in last 3 laps, my visor started fogging up so nothing to see there. Although there is a nice 3 wide overtake at the end of lap 11 At the end, this probably got me in the top25 but it would be nice if I can further improve this so I can be sure. At the end, not much activities left. If I get through this phase, only thing left is the fun part!

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

Immediately in outlap your approach to the switchback looked promising. Nice turn in to apex. Cold tires or maybe the infamous bump broke traction at apex. That was a deliberate change in approach, radically different from previous. You have my attention.

In the next bit, whether due to cold tires or a change of philosophy, you turn gently into 8 and keep the tires quiet. This is the best I have seen you take this turn. It was calmer, smoother, more mature. You execute your usual line well, 9-11, but with too much pedaling.

I can tell the coming laps are gonna be interesting. I see two huge changes that are probably not by accident, that suggest I’m going to be hitting rewind a bunch. I want to give this the time it deserves, because it looks like its going to be

Give me a day or 2.

[Bobby (Robert Hovey)]

I haven’t had a chance to watch due to being at work. But, having just driven on slightly damp track I would say that could be a big part of the back end wanting to step out.

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

First off: Big congrats. You are correct, you definitely have a 48.7 in you, no problem.
Big, big improvements. But, yeah, your mind game went off a bit.

The changes:
the new line into switchback.
The better controlled entry to 8 by virtue of doing the jog. (Consider ramping that jog up a bit. I’m finding very good results making it more assertive. I think you might too.)

In the early part of this, you were at your best. It seems to me that you were conservative as you looked for what grip the conditions would allow. You rode within the capability of the tire, mostly. As a consequence, you handled switchback very well. It was a smoother and quieter affair, largely.

You found new speed over a bunch of laps but you also got progressively more frustrated. Traffic started to impede your efforts and you started overdriving to catch up to the speed you had found earlier. You put in some great sectors in all of this, however. Keep your cool. Don’t emote. Focus.

I think you are starting to get it. You just have to beat the “rush” out of you. You got a bit frustrated and let it creep back in a bit. That being said, Wow! Nice work. You are using your head. If you can get back out there again, hopefully you can get some better conditions and traffic.

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

@Stacker

t the end, this probably got me in the top25 but it would be nice if I can further improve this so I can be sure.

Despite no seat time between this and last recording, you improved again. I would imagine that’s going to continue. But, the major thing that’s holding you back appears to be your desire to go fast and how you end up pushing a bit too hard. I think the extraneous foot work will disappear as your driving gets less aggressive. So, scale it back again like you did in early laps.

I know I keep pounding you on this but there’s a reason. You can’t force “fast”. The harder you try, the more you will fall off. You need to experience what feels “right” in order to chase it. You are close.

Really try to force yourself to be less aggressive entering corners. I’m not asking you to slow down, necessarily. I’m asking you to consider how to take a smoother, calmer entry to 8 while preserving mid corner and exit speed. Give up something, somewhere to be swinging through 8-9 without noise. Try increasing the right/left swing prior to turn in. Try leaning into that a bit more, be a bit rounder into 8. Switchback is very close now too, much better.

@Bobby If you are game, pipe up here. I think seeing your initial efforts and Pavles side by side is informative. You guys are almost exactly opposite in terms of how you try to learn track and find speed.
I’d be curious if you could try to explain to Pavle what you are thinking/trying as you recognize yourself overdriving. I know it’s early days for you but it might be helpful to hear.

Pass in closing bit was the bomb.. You weren’t letting that lap get ruined. And you went purple.

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

Thank you for advices. I understand what you mean, slow down to speed up. Could you clarify this:

@Bimodal_Rocket

The better controlled entry to 8 by virtue of doing the jog. (Consider ramping that jog up a bit. I’m finding very good results making it more assertive. I think you might too.)

Didn´t really understand what you meant, not familiar with these terms. I guess something simple but I can´t process it

Trying my best not to get angry at myself, but in some situations, it just happens

I was on the track again, an hour ago and I feel I improved in S1 (no times yet, just a feeling). I was also chatting with some other fast guys and with a guy who is driving here since 2013 and was in many semi-finals and 3rd in one final, before the new rule came up (like 3-4 years ago) that says whoever gets into final, can´t participate next 3 years. So he was not driving this configuration competitively, ever. He was open for a bit of talking.

After he watched my session, he told me that I should attack the 10 more aggressively. There is a small bump there that really makes your kart rotate much faster, but I did not manage to do it correctly so far. Even just a small bump on the apex sticks the kart to it nicely and rotates better. He also said I should not go as wide as I am going after 4. Not to swing it to the right completely, rather to the middle of the track at most and then cut back to prepare for switchback. What do you think of this?

By the way, I did a 48.856s. Great average time and track felt better than before. Also, alone with other competitor on the track, so no overtaking. That helped.

@Bobby Just a thought on how I developed my driving. Started with chunky inputs, fixed braking - accel. points and big corrections after mistakes that repeated. After some time, you get used to that overdriving and start to realize that you can actually back of a bit and work on the inputs first. After you smooth them out and start to go too slowly as you just go for either 100% brake or 100% throttle, I worked on small lifts. Now I am working on better timing, smoothing out every corner possible and final corrections in line it self. I felt this kind of order, step by step, just like this, helped me understand the kart better. Also to understand when you are overdoing something and to just recognize and eliminate that. Just few thoughts.

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

Ok let me clarify.

Remember how we discussed the idea of pre-loading 8? I had noticed that after 7, you had let the kart move to the center of the track rather than hugging the left edge. You then have to bring it back to the left edge before you turn in.

This is a bit like what @Matthijs_Hofman was discussing when he was showing you that twisty complex he drives. He was discussing with you the idea of keeping the mass flowing as opposed to arresting it and then changing its direction at turn in.

Anyways, take that right left right movement at that starts at 7 and turns in at 8 and make it more substantial. Ignore what I said about it being a tray of water you don’t spill over the sides.

Spill some water. Just a bit though, the idea isn’t a slide. The idea is to exaggerate that such that you plant more weight on the outside wheel at turn in. What you are looking for is a sense of real grip in the front left tire that doesn’t make unhappy sounds.

Look at my kk lap. Look at turn 1. I am being much more aggressive about loading up the right side (in my case it’s a left turn). Given that I have the 3rd fastest S1 (global) time on this track, I think it’s working.

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

@Stacker

After he watched my session, he told me that I should attack the 10 more aggressively

Ok sounds good but how specifically? Walk me through it.

Narrower 4: That makes sense to try. Shorten track, maybe better angle in? Do it and see. We discussed this back in August, actually. @Matthijs_Hofman was trying to help you understand the idea of keeping the mass of the kart flowing productively. Anyways he described how you would let the kart drift to the middle of the track and then pull it back to turn into switchback. The guy now is telling you you’ve taken that too far.

Congrats on the 48.8!
I think you are currently capable of .5.

The getting angry and stuff, it occurs to me that, in addition to messing with your concentration, it could hurt you in racing. If you were racing me I’d know you were weak and I’d probably be capitalizing on that. Old men can be real opportunistic jerks. Drive with a poker face, please. Maniacal laughter or tears is for your cool down lap.

@Stacker

that says whoever gets into final, can´t participate next 3 years.

That seems pretty extreme. So if you get good, you can’t compete in the race for the next 3 years? What’s the logic?

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

Alright, now it is clear to me what you meant. Also, however I do it, I need to do it earlier. That is messing me up before hairpin, attacking the curb at left, instead attacking the left side about 1m before the curb. This late move increases understeer greatly, I am working on reducing it.

@Bimodal_Rocket

Ok sounds good but how specifically? Walk me through it.

How I understand it and what I have seen in his driving (watched his session, he did a 48.480s) is that coming out of 9 to the right curb, his turn in to the left is more aggressive and he is incredibly accurate when he does it correctly. I will show it on picture.

This is the first session with weight. Random lap.

This is from yesterday. Fastest lap.

There is clear difference in how close I am to the apex, and on fastest lap, I partially hit it, but don´t feel that in the kart. What you can see here are tyre marks on the apex:

Yellow part is what I see as place where people usually hit the apex, but the red one is the perfect one, much more rubber there, even on the line. So what I think I should do is to hit the apex with ~1/2 of the tyre and with other half to be on the line and that bump. Not entirely possible, tyre is not a liquid so it can have full contact with the ground on angle, but relatively speaking, looking from above. And the turn in point should be just a bit earlier. Also, if I get that close with the front left, the rear left will clip it as well and force quicker rotation by simply pushing the rear of the kart to the right. That is how I see it. What do you think?

@Bimodal_Rocket

The guy now is telling you you’ve taken that too far.

Exactly, he said what I am doing is correct but it works for much stronger karts. In other words, I am not using 100% of the grip tyres offer me, but some 60/70%. I should cut that swing to the point where kart understeers, something like that.

@Bimodal_Rocket

That seems pretty extreme. What´s the logic?

Not quite sure, but seems like they want to give as many people chance to win and participate by removing the best 4 people from the competition in some of the following years. By the way, who wins, can´t participate again, ever.

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

So, slightly later apex, clip kerb, Kerb pushes back end right. Its worth a try to see how it goes.

For this to be beneficial, wouldn’t your trajectory into 10 have to be different and faster? The idea is that the kerbing will change your orientation to be correct for the next turn?

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

@Stacker

By the way, who wins, can´t participate again, ever.

Don’t win. Seriously, what are the previous winners doing? They should do an invitational race of the winners of past years.

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

Yes, aggressive approach, that is what he says at least. I guess a bit more speed and harder turn in.

I went to the track for 2 days in a row trying to test this out and there was no room for me to drive, all sessions filled…yesterday I waited 3 hours by the track to see if they can let me drive a single session (complicated to explain why would there be or why would there not be more sessions), but they did not let me drive as they were closing in 5mins time, as my session would end 5mins after their work hour The guys who work with karts asked them (family/group who run this place) like 5 times to just let us (me and one other guy who waited with me) to drive just one session, we waited 3 hours…but no.

Down to P15 now, but some rain is forecasted in the following days so hopefully it is going to be a flood so no one can drive anymore

@Bimodal_Rocket

Don’t win. Seriously, what are the previous winners doing? They should do an invitational race of the winners of past years.

Yeah, I really don´t understand the point of it. I mean, if I even get to the final race, I am out for next 3 years. I can drive every day as much as I want of course, but no competition. There is another option. Amateur racing league that I consider to join next season. It is not as expensive, there are raceweekends every now and then (like every 2-3 weeks) and it does not require anything except some money for each raceweekend. “We” drive rentals, on my track, other track in the city and on 2 other tracks around the country. So it is a solid option to try myself out in these races if there is opportunity to participate if everything else fails.

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

This race series sounds like a no brainer. Racing and hotlapping are very different. Go race.

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

Hopefully next season!

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

Quick update. I was at the track today, I was there for 4hrs and I got 2 sessions. Considering that the cut is tonight, I definitely made it. With a slight change. I set a personal best of 48.585s and made it through nicely in 10th place (maybe one or two down, since 1.5hrs left for someone to improve). Weird sessions but okay, some serious contact on few occasions but still enough for double improvement, in both sessions in comparing to last fastest time (Session 1 - 48.585s and session 2 - 48.841s). I will get the video tomorrow and I need to seriously analyze it as I was not comfortable and these were very rushed ones. Lot of overdriving but still solid result at the end. Next up, semi-finals and finals 12th October

[Bimodal_Rocket (Dom Callan)]

Aha! Congratulations! I knew you could do it. I look forwards to the video. So does this mean you are done for next few years? Or is that if you make top10?

Also, what’s the delta between you and the next guy above and below? What’s #1 at currently?

[Stacker (Pavle Smiljanić)]

No no, we are divided into 5 groups of 5 people. Winners from each group go into finals, and all the finalists are banned for the next 3 years (winner forever). Not there yet haha.

Here is the table, easier to understand:

Don´t know if the table is shown fully, maybe you need to click it to see it completely, not sure why… By the way, with the time I have set a week ago, I would have been knocked out! Lot of good drivers!