Well it can be chopped but it is really hard to maintain stability and to keep the momentum, as kart is heavy and carries a lot of speed into weird sequence of low speed corners. I tried going over it, it doesnt do much, but what I found more useful is just glazing it, just a tiny ride. It helps the turn in after so much speed is carried into it, and it actually has solid amount of grip as paint is fading slowly. The thing is to clip the white lines that are painted like 5-8cm from apexes and avoid riding apexes, as they just bounce you off in those low speed corners and destroy your momentum.
Was not asking on r/karting but there are probably people also struggling on these weird looking bits haha
It happens to slow down too quickly as karts tend too have enormous difference between each others. So if you hop into a kart that has brakes that lock the moment you press them, it is hard to even keep the control of the kart in almost every corner, so braking earlier is quite a common consequence in first few laps.
If I try to carry more speed, I get a lot of understeer and my line tends to go towards the tyres, requesting more brake pressure and momentum loss. Or you can simply end up crashed as many do. That hairpin is veery sharp and causes so many problems, almost every session.
I wish we could get context. Their darn website doesn’t allow you to paste their pictures. If I am not mistaken, this turn is VERY narrow, yes? If you had to guess base speed at apex?
If you are referring to a hairpin, looking at telemetry from another guy, similar line and laptime in general to mine, I would say around 34-36kmph at the middle of the corner, at the apex.
If you meant the turn I circled at the map, as a spinning point, then I am not sure, but over 47-50 kmph for sure as the max speed ar the straight is about 60-65 kmph.
21-22 mph. So that’s probably like lightpole at E-town. The interior kerb radius appears similar. That’s plenty fast enough to keep a wheel up, I’d think. I’m on and feeding well before apex there. Flow that turn.
Only difference I noticed while watching some replays is that my track is much more narrow in comparing to E-town. But yes, radius seems, to be the same and corner in general.
Let me just ask, how much leaning would you recommend and when to start doing it, in what part of the corner, before or at the apex?
Dear Pavle, I haven’t read all of the comments (I know I should but I’m at work) but I saw Dom bringing me in the discussion. So my apologies if I advise something that is being mentioned by someone else!
I watched the footage from 1:19 to 1:34. You will always struggle in slow corners with rental karts because it takes time to get up to speed again, but I feel there is something to gain. I have the impression that you can try to get to the outside of the entry (left side of the track) earlier than you do now (I know it’s not your footage, but my comment is based on it). You do reach the outside of the track, ready to turn in, but the center of gravity is not yet on the left side of the kart. Probably even leaning a bit towards the right. If you reach the outside of the entry two or three yards earlier, you can already start moving the COG towards the outside of the turn (the left) with minimal steering input towards the right. I watched the clip without sound (again, I’m at work) but I have the impression that the driver is sliding a bit, rubbing of speed and revs. I think that is because the weight is swinging from right to left while turning in (just like a sail on a boat can jibe/gybe) causing the rear tires to slide. Please let me know if it makes any sense.
I think you are right on the money. I was thinking about this very often right on the track but I assumed that it “could not have that big of an impact, speeds are not too big”, trying to explain to myself why I kept on going very wide on exit, thinking it will ruin my momentum if I turn in more aggressively. Since I had no one to really approve or correct me about it until now, I was doing that most of the time. But now when you mention COG swinging, it really makes sense. I usually feel that I close up to the that left apex too late and that I am kind of attacking it instead of going parallel to it.
Tried to visualize it through paint, my line looks something similar to this, exaggerated a bit as it is not such a deep line and there is no sharp left turning, but similar.
I did not feel it can cost me time but it certainly made me uncomfortable because after quick left turn, I had to get back to the left side, while doing so, prepare myself for braking and brake in very short amount of time and there was immediate turn in point afterwards. It looks like bit too much for a kart and tyres in those 50m. I will certainly try out later turn in for a tighter line at the exit and will post the experience here.
Just to make sure I understood correctly, you are saying something like this should be the line (paint pro coming):
Just a sketch of course but the idea is like that I assume.
I feel a lot of things when I am on the track but I often can´t remember everything or just don´t know how to express what I am feeling, especially here as I am not a native English speaker and I need to decode the phrases sometimes, so with pictures, I am just making sure I got your point completely
Good to hear we might be onto something. I’m not a native English speaker as well, but I think I understand you.
I read some things in this thread about being aggressive and all, but I don’t think you need to do that much. I think when changing COG goes fluently, the kart will do the work for you! I find @Terence_Dove’s book a very interesting read on this subject.
I think your red line is a bit too extreme. Not only because you lose speed in the fast left hander, but also because you are effectively making a straight between the two turns, meaning the COG is going back to neutral. That’s a waste, because it takes time and effort to move the COG. If only you can find a way to blend the fast lefthander into the tight righthander. I think it can be done by steering towards the left edge of the track just a few yards earlier, allowing yourself to (immediately) steer very slightly to the right before the actual turn-in. In that way the COG is already moving towards the outside of the kart where it should be. When you then do the actual turn-in, I bet the kart will react immediately without much hassle.
It’s a similar theory as driving a (motor)bike. A bike will only turn after you move the COG (your body) to the inside. A kart (or car) works the same way, only the COG must be on the outside. Hope this helps!
Your original orange line looks better. I don’t know that the line really changes that much. I think Matthjis is talking about weight transfer in a different way but towards the same end.
Loaded flow. Link the feeling of the run out from the prior turn smoothly into the next.
Take this to every corner on the track basically. This little turn problem will ultimately inform how you drive overall, if you think about it. There’s a chapter in Terence’s book that talks about this idea of preloading a kart for a turn.
If you expand on that idea and think about the track as one “motion” instead of a set of discrete turns, it starts to make sense. Link everything together into one thing.
It’s a tall order but where you will end up if you get serious about absolutely crushing this track.
Yeah, it is exaggerated, but the overall idea is to maybe tighten it just a bit, but now I get a more clear picture of what you are talking about. The tightening I drew is to make the COG transfer more fluently as I have a feeling after so much speed is carried into left turn, it takes bigger (then needed) effort to prepare kart for next turn.
I like this, I feel it can really help a better turn in and better response without such sharp inputs. Seems similar to Scandinavian flick, where you literally swing the car to the other side to promote oversteer. Looking forward to test this!
No no, you being perfectly clear all the time.
Yeah, now that he mentioned something like that, I am starting to get it, what can it improve and how the driving evolves overall. Really looking forward to test this out. Is it worth a shot to try this in all slower corners? Surely it can be helpful at last, bunched sequence?
During practice one day, I was, I thought, very aggressively attacking the track. I was virtually on the edge in every turn, fighting to get that last 10th of a second. It’s not easy!!
Later, in the pits, I was talking to a friend and he said something very surprising, “it just amazes me” he said “how really smooth you look out there” he also said something to the effect “it’s like you’re out there on a Sunday drive”. I thought to myself, I sure didn’t feel like I was smooth, I was fighting every corner. Smooth was not on my mind! I learned very early in my karting career, you don’t move your hands on the steering wheel, and you don’t lean back and forth, not knowingly of course.
Look at the line you drew… continue that line please. Show us the rest of the turn through run out as you see it.
Where you stopped is where your weight is mid transition. You were fully loaded on the right side a few moments earlier. Swing it around. (Poor choice of words… tip it over).
No Scandinavian flick please. That’s counter productive here. To Al’s point, the actual wheel angle input to make that corner is a pretty small gesture. Bear that in mind if you find yourself scrubbing the fronts through turn in.
Yeah, did not mean to really do Scandinavian flick, the idea of the small turn to the opposite side to improve COG transfer, just reminded me of it, at its basics. Will do the whole track after I find out how to draw it nicely as I still don’t have taped drive, annoyingly
See below a part of a track near me. I drive all these corners in one fluid motion without driving a straight line. Straightening the steering wheel would only stop the weight transfer but you don’t want that, instead you want to keep momentum in a series of corners. It’s funny though, because rule 1 is steer as little as possible. It sounds so counterproductive. You steer as little as possible in a sequence of corners, but better to keep steering than straigtening the wheel.
My god, does that sequence of hairpins look annoying Yeah, I agree with the counterproductive part, so many times I read that you should straighten the line but again, weight shifting is needed for upcoming corners. I will draw the line through the whole track and check with you guys about that weight transfer on some other situations, it could help me to better understand it on one or two more examples.
Yes, it looks very annoying, but if you add the ideal line you’ll see that it’s actually quite a flowing sequence. And it’s ideal for overtaking and trying to cut back behind. That is if you don’t drive a powerful kart, true… The track becomes truly horrible when you don’t attack these corners in one fluent motion.
Yeah, I agree with the counterproductive part, so many times I read that you should straighten the line but again, weight shifting is needed for upcoming corners. I will draw the line through the whole track and check with you guys about that weight transfer on some other situations, it could help me to better understand it on one or two more examples.