Hairpin turn in low hp kart

Hard to say. Sounds likely that rushing 9 causes you to have to brake harder into 10. But you seem to have found a good exit from there.

What happens if you try less hard to go fast from 8 to 9? Take the turn in just as fast but maybe try to just maintain that speed as you set up for 9? Just to see what giving yourself an extra split second to get the kart where you need it nice without it being a mad dash.

I bet if you figure out the 8-9 transition the 9-10 fixes itself.

I could be wrong but while the cooler air = more grunt doesn’t the cooler air also mean cooler tarmac? I’ve only done 1 night race and grip wasn’t as good as day.

Is a datalogger in your budget? Of course you’ll have to work with the track on mounting it… but if you’ve reached a plateau it might be time.

A helmet camera is a good form of datalogger too if permitted.

Night is lower grip yes?

So this complex has not been a problem in the past? And, it looks pretty standard. Fast right sweeper into a big standard turn that you probably normally do well in.

This may be just you being sick, tired, and to be honest we threw a lot at you. Basically you have been drinking from a firehose! It seems to me that you did well in the closing sequence.

It’s possible that this particular complex is not really a problem, that trying new things has thrown you off a bit. That should resolve itself as your timing etc starts to come together. But yeah, if you are mid corner braking, that’s no good.

Are you making more speed into 1 from better launch off last complex? More speed down line. That could throw your timing off into 1.

Agree with Dom. I think you are trying too much at once. Our brains are not programmed to learn everything at once. You say that the hairpin went well, first mission accomplished! I think you should be pleased with that and proud with yourself. Ok, now try corner sequence 9-10-11. Get that right, then try corner 1-2-3. Good luck!

Well, I tend to slow down just enough to make the 8 and then for some reason, I try to accelerate to the 9 and 10. I think it is a habit that is here from the beginning as I used to brake much less and then “drift” into corner, with controlled oversteer that slowed the kart down quite a bit. Back then, I thought it was the best way to take the corner. So now when I brake nicely and take good line I see some space and my mind says “Go!” and instead of being patient, seems I just add more throttle.
So I guess, I need to do some work and do what looks pretty obvious to me, change the speed, make it constant or at least with less acceleration.

About the night grip. From yesterdays experience and many other factors, I concluded the night is the absolute best time for driving here. As I already heard, many people come here at the night, including fastest drivers because the t° is lower so tyres work better, air is less dense so engine works better (No facts to back this up, that is what I was told from the people working there). Also, when Top 25/50 qualification starts, there are sessions only for us, who try to qualify and they are booked every day from 21-22h (9-10PM). So this is only to this track and karts related at the moment as I am not sure how stronger karts react to this.

That mid corner braking was just bad idea, testing the line I used to drive long ago. I would barely brake into T1 and then smash the brake into T2. I was curious about the grip levels so I guess that is where this dumb idea came from once again. I will try to find normal line and brake constantly at the same spot, always messes me up when I am like where do I brake now as turn just tends to be taken flat out.

Thanks Matt, I will try that, I think I could work that last part nicely!

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Maybe try to maintain speed between 8 and 9 then accelerate out through 10. The difference into 10 accidentally slowed you down such that you got a better result 10-1?

That’s slow. Hooking up the turn will be faster. Speed in doesn’t matter, speed out does. You need to take 10 well to hook up the final complex.

Just keep plugging here. My suggestion is that you think about “subtracting” stuff rather than adding. Instead of trying to go harder through the turn, see what you can subtract and wether that calms thing down and is faster.

Start by playing with your acceleration between 8-10. Brake, turn in, constant throttle between 8-9. Hook it up and slowly feed into 10 if possible, otherwise maintain speed, nail 10. Play with this area.

Another possibility: Accel through 8 then lift, turn, go (hard gas). The lift right before 9 should help rotate. I doubt this will be fastest but maybe will help you get the timing right.

@Stacker lemme elaborate a bit. It’s likely not an issue but it’s worth keeping in mind as you get quicker here.

This complex reminds me a bit of a section of AMP. There’s a very fast bit that goes into a massive braking double apex with a chicane out. The chicane then feeds into a short straight followed by a high speed right sweeper. That right sweeper feeds into another even faster right sweeper into another fast straight into final corner.

In other words, holy crap there’s a lot to get right here.

In any case, I did nail this perfectly the other night. Somehow I got totally hooked up from the moment I touched the throttle after the braking zone of the first bit.

What came of this was speed. A lot of it. And as such I totally overshot the 2nd sweeper. It came too soon.

There’s a movie that’s playing in your head as you go around the track. You are driving the track and simultaneously serially processing your actual position in space and time relative to your expected position based on what you have become accustomed to.

When you start making changes all this gets thrown off and you feel weird. Push through it. Brain will adjust.

If you think about it a 1 mph difference from turn 10 all the way to 1 probably changes your timing more than you’d expect. Just a guess though.

You are thinking the same way as I do, the idea I have in mind for next run. I think the idea of slowing down more at that last part T8 amd T9 is correct and I will make sure not to go too fast before the last 3 turns.

Talking about that extra speed I carry into turn 1 as a result of better line, I think it is truth. The whole track seems out of sync in my head. I guess you are right, it will take some time to get used to the possible changes I made, but I think the result of the last run was very promising. Yesterday, I was only .5s slower than a guy who is in top 10 right now (he drove session before me). And in addition to that, I made a lot of mistakes and I did not connect a single clear lap plus the line was not perfect as well. I just feel I need more seat time. How often do you go to the track?

Well I used to go to the track for 10 weekends a year (races). I’d also get a few extra days here and there. But I sim every night about 1-3 hrs total driving time.

Seat time I’d guess 20-30 days a year.

Seat time is key, obviously. More is better.

And on that subject… if you run enough laps eventually you will get to a place where you aren’t thinking anymore, at least not about the turn coming up etc.

I have found that my best driving occurs when I become disassociated with my driving. I’m curious if you have ever experienced the following:

You suddenly realize you just drove a tricky complex well or an entire lap even and you didn’t notice yourself doing it until after. Have you experienced this?

It’s usually coincidental with me thinking about something I discovered on track. I sort of end up having an internal conversation with my coach about what happened. I find that in these times I am effectively handing the wheel over to the “essential” me. My attention is otherwise occupied.

I call this “handing the wheel over to the Stig”. He is a much better driver than me, as it turns out.


One thing I will be utilising at my local track is the kart driving training they do (they call it the karting academy). Does your track offer something similar?

So it seems like 2-4 times a month + races. That is similar to what I do, except I don´t do races right now, but I will sign up for next years amateur competition, that offers like 4 cup-type of events, not sure how it exactly works, but it is the cheapest option.

Hmmm…I never really felt that. Most of the time I am occupied about the upcoming turn (sometimes in first few laps even some panic lol, because I am getting used to brakes and handling that is so much different on each kart) and always paying attention to the braking zones. I think I need to find my own Stig so I have some backup tactics :smile:

By the way, I was on the track again and I have seen some nice improvement from yesterday. Worst lap being 52.748 (L2) and the best 50.742 (L7). The major difference was that I raced with 4 other people who drove like really slow, some even doing over a minute so it messed a lot of laps. Even with the traffic, my average time was lower in compared to yesterday, when I was alone on the track and in better conditions. So progress is being made.

@Bobby That is the main problem. I live in Serbia. Small country at the Balkans. Motorsport is terribly developed (I don´t know better phrase lol) here and there is no such things as Karting clubs or academies. The sport pretty much ends on rentals, everything else means you need to buy racing kart which is 2-4.000 euros plus knowledge about mechanics and constant maintenance that also costs a lot. With average wage being around 400 euros, that is almost impossible task for regular family. Without serious sponsors you can not go and race for real, unfortunately.

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Well done on doing better today! Does the rental track offer any training? Or maybe speak to the faster guys and see they are willing to impart some knowledge on approaches and strategies

Unfortunately no type of training is available to anyone right now. I might get along with some faster guys and see if they can share some advices, that was my idea in the first place. But they have weird timing, really late like 10PM, looks like they found a sweet spot. I will chase them down in that period of the day it seems.

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I’d say just keep at it. Sounds like something useful is coming of it. The whole getting in the zone thing starts to happen when you have reached a high comfort level with the track and can zone out a bit. But, that doesn’t happen in traffic, usually.

Edit: So I am trying to get sub 56 @ amp on the KZ. For the past couple sessions I haven’t made any real progress after getting it down to 56.2.

Optimal just dropped to 55.9.

Here’s what’s different. I am braking softer, earlier. I am taking away stuff and trying to make the lap more predictable.

AMP looks like fantastic track to drive on but it looks very tricky with those elevation changes so I can imagine it is more difficult to drive cleanly.

When I drove under 50s last year, variations between laps were unreal, almost all the laps were 50.5-51s but 2 laps were somehow under 50s.

There is no longer ups and downs. If I am slower that day, I am constantly slower. Same goes if I am fast. I feel this is good, isn´t it?

@Stacker Honestly I don’t know. I am typically all over the place. I’ll generally start slowly and then within 5-10 laps start getting it down to 47s. When I get running well, Ill start banging out low 47 with some occasional 46s and then Ill get one lap where I typically match almost my best time. This will either come within 20-50 laps or not at all.

But I am in early stages here on this track. I think with PFI I was at the point where I could start running very fast laps quickly. But I had probably 1000+ laps there.

I find that if I am having a “bad” day, I can think my way around it and modify behavior to get decent results. But if I’m off I’m off and I am managing my poor sensitivity as opposed to letting it ride.

You may find this a little hard to believe, but I timed the laps myself. My friend Terry Ives could do 10 laps around the Sacramento track, and all the lap times would be within plus/minus .1 seconds. I don’t say this to discourage you, I only mention it as a goal for you, something to shoot for. Don’t be too discouraged if you don’t reach this goal, Terry Ives was one hell of a kart driver. Much better than me, and I wasn’t half bad.

I suspect that traffic in rentals makes it hard to be that consistent. I bet there’s folks running 5-10s slower getting in the way.

But yeah, ideally you’d like to see laps within a couple tenths assuming no lap interruptions. But that comes after you have gotten your line and technique more established I think.

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