I was not. And I disagree (which is fine). Club racing is not attainable for the median income individual.
@fatboy1dh Whatās the ideal club racing budget for a median income individual? Iād like to crunch numbers.
The median income in the US is $45k ish. The household median income is $80k ish. Whatās a reasonable % of income to spend on a hobby?
To be clear everyone, I understand that everything is expensive and this problem is not exclusive to karting. Iām just sad that the cheapest (and best IMO) form of Motorsport is no longer accessible to the average person. I donāt think we can fix it. It just sucks so I did the only thing we can do nowadays and complained about it on the internet.
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Lemons is still very affordable 
The 50/30/20 rule is a common thing in financial advising. 50% of your income goes to needs/debt pay off, 30% to savings, and 20% to wants/fun.
If the average household income in 75k/year, that gives you 32.5k a year for needs, 22.5k to savings, and $15k for fun/wants.
So the average family has up to $15k a year to spend on karting. Of course, that excludes any other fun. So vacations or activities with your family or whatever also goes in that pot. If the average family really wanted to be involved in karting, they could probably spend about $10k a year on it and end up with pretty good equipment and do a fair number of races. That leaves them $5k for trips or other sports or down payment on a new car or something.
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I personally believe the expense side of your life determines whatās left for your hobby side. I know plenty of middle income folks that do well and some that stay broke. I also know many high and very high income that stay broke. You would not believe some of the things Iāve seen when it comes the financesā¦both personal and business.
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You guys bring up a good point, which I will summarize as: I bet the āaverageā person does not manage their money well enough to follow the 50/30/20 rule.
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You are totally correct. Most Americans are not handling their finances responsibly. But that isnāt the sportās fault.
My point just being that the average person CAN afford karting at a certain level if they are handling their money responsibly and sacrificing some other luxuries. I canāt argue that aspects of our sport have gotten more difficult to afford for the common man.
Which is why I donāt really vacation. Iād rather spend a weekend at the track!
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I know you donāt think it counts but rental racing is still affordable. Just ask all the young people with limited funds that race them!
That being saidā¦ EK is up to 1700 per team per race.
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Its not that I ādont think it countsā, just not what I meant in this thread. I am 100% jealous of all the racing you get to do! Whether its rentals, owner karting, or even sim racing. Anything you can afford and accommodate in your life is awesome.
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One thing I dislike about āsingle-makeā series is that it puts all the control (and therefore pricing) in the hands of the manufacturer, thus leading to profit-motive focus instead of sport-health focus.
At the other end of the scale, wide-open development costs would kill participation also.
Something like a 20mm carb venturi spec, and 20 mm exhaust outlet spec but open make, and open chassis / open tires (with hard duro spec) / open bodywork (or just nerfs, as I prefer) would open things back up.
No endless Rotax updates, no IAME āspecial batchesā, no pockets of racers localized by series datesā¦ instead, a cross-country hodgepodge of families, hobbyists, and lower-level entrants.
I think you shouldnāt even be eligible for national level racing (and costs) without funnelling through a local club scene first. If FIA is going to bother to license, it should be true divisions. If thereās no licensing, the tracks/orgs should set priorities for growth and the health of the sport instead of fighting over slices of a diminishing pie.
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I think Tilly T4s are just another way for karting to move forward and give other manufactures a chance at the sport. And people who come off of rentals. Should not only be one manufactures game. Like Briggs. Thatās a monopoly. Kind of like only being able to buy a ford and thats it. Like I said before you can always put different motors on T4 chassis and race any series you wantā¦ Not trying to stir pot just giving a opinion. Whats forum are aboutā¦
Didnt know that. Is it something similar to Rotax lucky cylinders?
I think itās purely rumor, but Iāve heard it before. Unless someoneās found 2 hp somewhere, and can fire off 5 consecutive laps within .050s of each other, it āaint gonnaā help, but the perception of āmagic bulletsā existing can surely dissuade someone on the fence from joining in. The illusion of parity is paramount.
Yeah, thatās true. Just look what happened with the Rotax Frankenstein engines in the US. It may have happened 1 in 50 but the perception still exists.
Anyone can buy any kart and race it wherever. Briggs doesnāt have a monopoly on anything, theyāve just provided a good product that is very popular for a number of good reasons. Ford doesnāt have a monopoly on trucks, the F-150 is just the best selling truck because itās the best overall product. Anyone is welcome to buy a Tundra or Silverado instead if they want.
I donāt understand the resistance to 206; itās a great package and does exactly what itās designed to do.
Really the only thing the T4 offers over the 206 is itās a bit faster. But buying a T4 package doesnāt solve the problem of cost as discussed in this thread, as itās going to run you $5000 initially to buy the package, which is a big chunk of money for most people. If we go back to my example about average household income, the average family has $10k a year for a budget and that initial buy-in for a T4 is half that. You could pick up a $2000-3000 used 206 package and race it anywhere in the country basically and find strong grids.
With regards to KA parityā¦ IAMEās manufacturing has been really consistent and I donāt know as though there are real āspecialā KA cylinders out there. Certainly some are better than others but it isnāt NEARLY as bad as it used to be with Yamaha or something like that. I find of all the KA engines Iāve driven, they are pretty similar but they vary a bit on powerband placement, which could also be down to the builder.
Just wanted to address that because thatās how the āengine of the monthā rumors and perception starts.
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This is one the things that drivers prices up to silly levels. There will allways be the rumors that some one have that magic Exhaust, or special batch carburator.
The prices are an insurance against fear of making the wrong choice. They arenāt always reflective of actual reality. People will pay a LOT of money to remove doubt surrounding their engines. It doesnāt need to be a magic engine, it just needs to be 100% not a bad one. Other mechanisms include Conspicuous Consumption but this is how pricing often works in karting.
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I remember in X30 someone brought a X30 from US and that engine had everything, very good low and high end, but didnāt win because the driver still needs a lot of experience. Although from the winner at that time told me he had to send it hard because he almost couldnāt catch it on the straight. That was the only āspecialā engine I found in my club
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I think people are pushing back because you come across as a Tilly salesperson. The package isnāt bad, it is just very very localized at this time. People typically donāt rush out and commit $$ on a new or prospective class quickly. The US is predominantly LO206 and KA100 single speed karting. Doesnāt mean they are good or bad, they are what is most common and accepted across the country.
As mentioned above, the Tilly T4 is extremely localized and not widely run. Doesnāt mean the package is bad, it means that the package hasnāt been widely adopted. As such, the resale market is going to be very small, which makes used equipment for The T4 package rare or expensive. In addition, it is a single make motor and chassis, which can present some negatives for widespread adoption.
The 206 package is not a single make chassis package, it can be bolted to any used chassis, which makes lots of chassis choices. Also the 206 has been around 15 years now, so there are lots of them in the used market. This makes the barrier to initial entry much lower. My son started for $2500 with a motor, chassis, and standā¦that is only possible due to a large number of used pieces on the market which Tilly does not have.
I would love to have a higher HP option in the US for 4-stroke racing, but Briggs has done a great job developing a class and has the market such that other options just donāt make sense. May change if Briggs changes support for grassroots racing or has quality issues, but they are going to have to have a misstep to create an opportunity for someone else before they lose the market.
As for the monopoly comment, well that is not really accurate. It is quite common across many forms of racing to have single make chassis or motor platforms. It doesnāt always save money or improve racing as advertised, but it is commonly done. In karting in the US most organizations have gone with Briggs LO206 for 4 stroke and IAME KA100 for 2 stroke. Not a monopoly per se, although it darn sure feels like it some times.
Overall you are correct in that 4-stroke racing is the only way to really run karts on a budget in the US.
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