Though not as extreme, I did jump the Monza at South Bend once, cleared the crash bags, and landed in the fence.
3 Likes
Here are a few important distinctions that we should keep in mind regarding outdoor karting circuits in the US:
- Karting is and always has been a niche audience, especially for outdoor tracks. More tracks don’t HAVE to exist, and I’d argue that past a certain point (a point we may be reaching or have reached here in the midwest), more tracks aren’t truly additive to this sector of the sport, but rather redividing the same pie.
which points us to…
-
Corporate entities don’t care what happens to the REST of the pie, they simply want to grab more. There is no “helping”, but rather “capturing” is how they go about business.
-
Let’s look at a real-life example, that being Whiteland Raceway Park (WRP). Sarah and Andy have been absolute champions of the sport, and they are certainly on the side of helping karting grow via what they’ve done to redevelop WRP. I’m not sure if they will fully exit, or run WRP in tandem with K1 oversight, but you can already see how the corporate influence has affected their existing customers:
- Increased pricing on practice fees
- Increased pricing on garage fees
- Garage fees non-inclusive of practice privelages
- The list goes on…
Sure, this is growth for THEIR business, but at the literal expense of their customers. And what will they offer that is above/beyond what Sarah and Andy already provided?
- Yes, the corporations may bring more people in the door, but their business thrives on velocity, i.e. “churn and burn”, and not on development.
In the spirit of contributing to the original topic, I think there IS a place for churn and burn facilities like K1, but in the indoor realm, and possibly outdoor rental fleets once the barrier to entry comes down. If we start to homogenize the corporate karting experience and the outdoor enthusiast experience it’s going to be a net negative result for the sport as a whole. That would be like revamping the best golf courses in the country to turn them into mini-golf.
IMO, competition karting (and top tier motorsports in general) needs to stay away from electric. Case in point, Formula E…what an absolute snooze fest. We’re sensory beings, and a race car going around a race track without piping out a ridiculously badass exhaust note is a disservice to humanity.
Nobody ever stood next to a Prius and gave the driver a thumbs up and an ear-to-ear grin when they turned the car on 
5 Likes
That Hyundai Ioniq 5 N though…
1 Like
You know I look at things this way. Of Coarse Corporate Companies are going to get into karting its a exciting sport. And aligns with other motorsports they invest in. And there money is helping tracks that are struggling I think its a great thing . Better than shutting them down. And they seem to be making alot of improvement’s and they have the money to do it. And of coarse there going to want to recoup the money they have invested by increasing pricing. And NO I think electric is a great thing for karting. It has instant torque and speed. And is a different level of karting . Can adjust power levels and can do alot of classes with one kart. Without all the changing in motors. I dont see it a threat to gas just a different choice. Kind of like Tillotson T4 class. Just another choice. There will always be people with a opinion of this and that. And that’s OK. But its just progress . And its a old sport with some new thinking to help grow the sport that could use some new thinking… Just saying… Hope everybody no matter what thoughts they have on subject has a great 2025 season… I need to jump off soapbox now. Have a great season…
These changes were happening regardless or the track would not continue existence.
Yep thats what I was trying to say !!! Change are going to happen to move alot of tracks forward and survive…
Then maybe this is a question of viability in the first place. Throwing good money after bad doesn’t create long-term success, regardless of whose pockets it’s coming from.
ROI is a funny thing in Motorsport. Do we really think companies like Gainbridge, for instance, see a healthy ROI from their IndyCar marketing $$$?
1 Like
Looks like alot of companies are going forward with there investments. They must see a good return on there money. And I think its great for the sport. More exposure for such a great sport. And more rental karts for tracks help people come into the sport and help make more revenue than just race karts. Electric or gas. Looks like a great future for karting and some great updates for the old mindset sport… Lorain Ohio Kartplex. Is going to have a blend of it all. Indoor Electric & outside Gas Rentals / RC Cars / And FIA race track / And mini motos. A lot of tracks are finding out cant just make money on race kart nights to survive… Have to advance with new ideas to make money or die… And big companies is part of that equation …
Fundamentally, racing is taking a moving object and racing it as fast and as long as possible, to find the best. The best driver, the best combination of parts, the best overall vehicle.
And this is where arbitrary lesser electric “power levels” seem anathema to the concept of racing for me. Sure, for true rookies or tiny people, I get it. Otherwise, size the product to the desired outcome. If it CAN go faster, than make it go faster.
I think there is a fundamental philosophy difference between what is being sold as “electric ‘race’ karting,” and what traditional outdoor race karting is today. While electrics can help support outdoor tracks, I don’t think they’re the same thing with just a different propulsion type.
Until electrics are minimalist builds, maximum power, and refined by the crucible of racing, I’m not interested. They will remain an “other” thing, just as rental gas units are now. Sure, fun to go bash around on with your buddies, but not serious “racing” vehicles. Rental gas units are overweight, overslow, and oversafe. The driving experience suffers, and that’s why I’m a fan of keeping the divisions of “rental” and “racing” seperate. Each has their place, but stop pretending they’re analagous.
Ditto with electrics. Until you’re willing to reduce an electric race kart to its’ fundamentals, open competition to any supplier, and let the best combination win, it’s simply a market grab for a gentrified experience.
BSR is an interesting amalgam – some of the overburdensome safety has been discarded, but the weight and protectionist philosophy remain. It’s the eRotaxMax of karting. Not a bad thing, per se, but also not the totality what traditional outdoor karting was (or should be, imo.) There is a place for single-make, but one should never forget that single-make means single-control. And that control won’t be someone interested in the long term of the sport, rather someone interested in their own profitability.
And this is where the orgs are going wrong. They’ve sold out and married manufacturers instead of protecting racers by setting a spec and allowing all to come to the table. For eKarting to be a benefit to karting as a whole, I see the need for a spec motor wattage, spec battery capacity, MAYBE a spec ECU that’s handed out on the grid and “have at it, boys (and girls.)”
I’m in favor of any electric kart that betters the breed. Not a fan of glorified rental units with fancy market domination schemes.
I don’t disagree but the issue is that what you describe pretty much guarantees that kart racing remains a hard to access black box handed down within families. And expensive.
Why do you say so? In its’ inception, a bunch of sportscar guys tired of the expense and hassle welded a bunch of tubes together and put on surplus mower engines…karting was born. The key was / is simplicity and surplus.
Karting need not be expensive – used chassis can be found for $500-1000 most places. Engines can similarly be found for cheap (PRD, KT-100, etc.) that fit existing classes. Although they may not be winners, they allow competition.
We need to face the reality that there can only be 1 winner, so karting had better cater to enabling field-fillers. That means stable rulesets, sensible cost-saving rules, and good ENFORCED teching for a fair playing field.
The real problem for “competition class” ekarting may indeed be TECH. You’ll need software and hardware engineers, or spec parts. Perhaps this is where the single-make practice makes the most sense?
Because it’s complex and expensive to race like the pros. It’s where every racer wants to land, in many ways, their own kart, tuning, etc. But unless you are introduced to it by someone already on the inside, it’s opaque and not very approachable. That was my experience, initially.
I couldn’t figure it out and eventually found Jim Hall out in Oxnard who made the intro to “proper” karting easy for us. From there, I was able to jump into TAG125 with F-Series and tenting with Jerry (Kartworkz).
However, ultimately, spending 30k a season to race fast karts with my son became impossible because we decided to embark on private school for him, so something had to give. From there, I found rental racing to be engaging and ultimately a relative rounding error financially.
I also discovered that there are a lot of folks, young and old, that want to race and do so in rentals. I found a latent community that ultimately became a large one via the efforts of guys like Alec who created a traveling series called TKC specifically to offer good racing for those of us who wanted to compete, hard, but didn’t have the time/money to race owner karts. I also try very very hard to foster community, clarity, etc to other racers, helping aggregate opportunities and people. I evangelize, sort of.
My beef isn’t that rental racing isn’t real racing… my beef is that corporate players are consolidating the heck out of things and the folks who get it “independents” are getting few and far between and ultimately will be squeezed out entirely. They (independents) matter immensely in that they are what allow folks to dip their toes, experience racing, and then move on up to what you describe.
@KartwerksDan can attest to the power of rental leagues and how many new owner kart racers his program has added to PITT.
I really doubt their growth in owner karts would be the same without a well done, legit rental racing effort to feed folks into the system.
And finally, what K1 is doing is not at all the same. It’s not about building a racing clientele.
E-kart or gas is sort of irrelevant in this context.
Props to Shredway Maine for trying stuff like this:
1 Like
There didn’t used to be ANY rentals?! The whole sport WAS club racing, with orgs putting on Nationals. I certainly don’t want to see the sport model changed to only (or even primarily) rental feeders, but I think that’s a good option for those with limited funds or limited mechanical abilities.
The model is: show up at a track, ask questions, find a solid used (cheap) package for a (cheap) beginnners class, go racing and learn what the heck you don’t know with advice from competitors and friends (which really should be the same people!)
This IS grassroots and amateur motorsports. Have we so lost our social skills and mechanical skills that this is no longer viable? (Serious question!)
I’m glad you found your way into the sport how you did, and I’m glad that indoor kart places are somewhat of a feeder for outdoor, but that pipeline has never been well-established, and the indoor places don’t often promote the outdoor places as the “next step.” They are seen, historically, as profit-centers and entertainment in urban areas. Outdoor kart tracks have historically been beyond the suburbs in the country, mostly for noise and space reasons.
So, bringing it back to electric karting – what model is going to ''win" in electric karting, and how does this support or detract from outdoor karting in general? I don’t see urban karting centers as the solution. While the noise complaints go away, the space constraint is still a thing…and RENT.
So, I was approaching electric karting from the mindset of “what replaces petrol karting?” or possibly “what does electric karting look like as a sidebar to petrol karting, same competitive format?”
Just like any social group – the membership doubles if everyone gets one other new person involved.
1 Like
I was trying to articulate the opposite, sort of. The indoor chainification doesn’t add to owner karting or outdoor karting, at least not intentionally. Some crossover I’m sure but not by design or intent.
Electric isn’t going to be relevant for club-national for a long time, if ever. It has, however, won the amusement center market completely.
1 Like
TJ check this out…
2 Likes
Absolutely bananas.
When Ns start to depreciate, I plan on buying one. Normal AWD Ioniq 5s are in the 20s now, so they are coming down quick. Ns are new so still in 40-50 range.
I could talk about cars all day. In fact, I do. Ask my wife.
1 Like
Sometimes (rare as it is) rental karting does lead somewhere…
Here’s our local pal, Brenna, TKC racer, FC Motorsports endurance team member, in her ride at Nola:
Photo from her Insta
1 Like
Very short, very direct: YES
2 Likes
Quite the progression! I’d love to drive one of these cars myself one day.
1 Like
Hey come to Lorain Ohio Kartplex when they get all there facility’s open by fall we hope. They will have Electric indoor karts / Outdoor gas rentals track separate from pro track no interruptions to pro track running. And a FIA pro track. Also a RC track. Going to be a great facility like no other.. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61561856782562