Following that logic, why race shifters when we could all just go sky diving?
You are implying that racing single speed stuff is not “thrilling”. I think the guys coming off the track with big smiles or the guys coming off the track wanting that one more spot would disagree.
I agree with everything you said 100%, though. Including the word “driving”. Is driving a shifter more fun than a single speed? Heck yeah!!! Is racing a shifter more fun than racing a single speed? I think right now, folks are saying no.
I’d like to see a Formal vs Kremers battle.
As for karting in the US, I think teams at the higher level of car racing should start backing up some teams or start their own and have some signed drivers… Like MB, RB, F, etc…
I agree Derek, I’m not racing explicitly for the thrill of driving… I race for the competition and the thrill. Same reason iRacing is fun; not because it’s particularly thrilling, but because of the competition.
I’m admittedly not a shifter guy, but I can imagine it would be a lot more fun to rip laps in a shifter. However, as far as racing goes, some of the most fun battles I’ve had are in a packed field of slow-ass Yamahas at New Castle.
I think the whole debate just hinges on our opinions. Danny’s not necessarily right in my eyes, but his opinion certainly has merit.
Does your perception of competition change if there’s a larger delta between P1 and P10 pace? To me that’s an even larger call to action to push one’s self and equipment to reach the limit. The bar is higher to catch a guy like Myers in shifter than it is even to catch Norberg in X30. That’s my take.
There are plenty of wheel to wheel battles to be had in shifters, just need deeper fields to fill in the “talent gaps”.
My uneducated take is that I enjoy the wheel to wheel x30 pro action more than the shifter races. It’s simply because the races are packed tighter with more karts in scrum.
I feel like it would help with the “spectator sport” issue if there was a proper Pro series. I personally lose a lot of interest with all of these 2-3 weekend “series” that in the end do not put all of the best drivers against each other and just dilute the sport more.
The length of the F1 threads on here around Verstappen vs Hamilton last year leads me to believe that 10 vehicles fighting isn’t really what people want nor consume. It’s what people say they want, but I don’t believe it is. You can have two guys fighting each other for a year and in essance have minimal overtakes and it’s by far the most talked about championship fight on this forum. I don’t recall any of us talking at length about multikart KA or X30 battles.
We are however… talking about Formal… and that says something.
I’d argue the opposite. The banter around the unpredictability of current F1 season seems to have engaged more of us. It’s more interesting to me than HAM VER BOT.
Firstly the banter confirms my hypothesis that multi-make competition is fundamentally more engaging and meaningful. X30 and KA racing is the most predictable racing on the planet. You know why? Because a KA and X30 win every race. We had a whole winter talking about sidepods on here… absolutely zero talk about real engine or kart development (because there isn’t any bar the odd chassis thing… and dumb ass nassau nonsence)
Secondly we have a dominate car/driver package and the racing isn’t particularly close or unpredictable in F1. Ferrari is ahead, RedBull close in 2nd. Then the rest.
I can guarantee most of us will be watching the F1 though.
I’m just going to jump in here and say one of the best races I saw was a 4 kart 206 race that ended 3 wide across the line. To me, the size of the field doesn’t matter so much as the competitiveness of who’s in it.
Part of the problem in shifter is that it rarely ends up being a close fight. Formal had everything in ROK Cup once he got the holeshot, Kremers wasn’t even a question in NOLA. It’s the same issue that F1 has fought with, I never tuned in to F1 races until last year because it was almost guaranteed who the winner would be, compared to IndyCar or NASCAR where you never knew who would win.
I think part of that issue in shifter comes down to entries. Numbers bring more numbers since everyone wants competition, and everyone wants a shot at winning.
I think something that would help is payouts to the top 10. Right now, you’re spending more money to have less competition, but if you pay out to the top 10, you’ll get guys entering the race because they have a shot at top 10 and make some money back from it (Xander has specifically talked about this multiple times before)
I think this is the genius of Xanders approach. We are getting personalities in the sport now. Even some villains! It’s entertaining and adds a while new level. Let’s hope it doesn’t get out of hand, tho. Chill is good, too!
IndyCar is nowhere near as popular as F1, and now is panicking due to F1’s infiltration into the American market.
People think unpredictable racing is what people want… it actually isn’t. Narrative is what people want… and F1 has FAR more narrative… and hundreds of millions more fans.
It should be noted America is a far more dynamic market for this type of thing. Long and short of it is that you guys ‘get it’. I see a lot of Euro envy in the American karting scene, but I think fundamentally N America has bigger potential. I would move to America in a heart beat if an opportunity arose.
I do question Formal’s arguments but I think Formal was speaking to how physically difficult it is to drive a KZ. Nonetheless, why should that be a discriminator of driving ability? It 's his opinion and nothing more. I really think he’s pissed because all of the Indy drivers that have made it, mostly come from single speed karts.
I think he’s more annoyed at what he deems as weakness in the X30 drivers who don’t want to race KZ, which is a real racing class. X30 is a hobby engine, he isn’t wrong. It does show a lack of ambition (or maybe oppurtunity). but each to their own. I get his POV coz it is frustrating seeing quality drivers kinda get lost in these hobby classes forever and just blur into history. Let’s face it… Norberg VS Formal would be an event… no doubt about it.
The UK ‘historic’ scene has endless conversations about world and British champs up until around 2000 when Rotax took over and it’s all been a bit quiet. Champions now come and go, no one seems to remember or care… and this is now 20 years of Rotax dominance. It’s a cultural thing too because no one cares about FIA World Championship racing either nowadays. SO I can see why Formal is angry. In essence he wants the best drivers fighting in the best class and people getting excited and pumped.
However, Formal does highlight that really ‘OK’ should be ‘the’ class, not KZ. KZ inherited the premier status because of KF destroying the single-speed scene which witnessed a move to KZ from the ‘pros’, and subsequently OK becoming a kids class as well.
In a perfect world Norberg would be shipped over to Europe to go up against everyone… OR… the FIA would pull their finger out and hosting a World Championship in N America. That’s what SHOULD happen in motorsport. The fact it doesn’t is such a shame.
So it’s all a bit messy. I don’t think the IndyCar comment holds water as Verstappen and LeClerc both did KZ. not that I find a class’s worth is based on what drivers go and do cars.
take.
…also less splat factor.