(The following private conversation is republished here with permission from @tjkoyen, hopefully it helps some newer drivers with get deeper into things, and helps more experience drivers with being open to getting a second set of qualified eyes to help them with those last tenths they’re looking for)
Hi TJ,
Hey, I wanted to reach out off thread to let you know that I made it to the track again and have some GoPro footage. Thanks for offering to take a look and offer your feedback - I respect your experience, knowledge, and driving ability!
I posted a Youtube video of my best lap from what was It was a bit of a crazy track day, in that I was changing ignition coils with completely different mappings in the middle of it, the track wasn’t in the greatest condition, and my tires are not-current-generation Levantos. But I guess, while all of that might affect the final stopwatch, in the end the driving is the driving.
Thanks and best regards!
Caleb
Hey Caleb,
Great! I’ll take a gander and write some notes for you. After a few quick watches here I see some areas we can work on already but I will send over a detailed review when I’ve got a few minutes.
What a busy lap… what track is this?
TJ
Great, I’m looking forward to seeing what you have for me. The track is Prairie City in Northern California.
Hey Caleb,
Here are some of my notes after reviewing the video. Lots to digest, so ask away if you have questions!
1 - Looks like you are countersteering in basically ever corner. I know you’re working with a SuperRok so you’ve got some power under your right foot, but even so, we want to make sure we eliminate some of that countersteering as it obviously just scrubs speed off at every apex. So why are we countersteering? Well it looks like it’s probably a couple reasons. Mainly, I think you are too eager with your inputs, both steering and pedals. Your initial steering input looks fairly quick, but the drama doesn’t happen until apex, generally when you are jumping back to throttle. From the sound of the engine, it seems like you are pretty quick on your right foot. It almost sounds like an on/off switch and we really want to modulate that pedal more progressively to prevent the kart from snapping and sliding. They key in all aspects of driving is to know how to exploit the maximum grip of the tire and not exceed it. This requires managing of the loads going through the chassis and modulating each input to keep the tire from going over that limit. So I’d like to see a more progressive roll onto the throttle a bit more to keep from overwhelming the rear tire.
2 - To go along with that, we need to work on where we are applying throttle too. As we are trying to manage the tire’s load through the whole corner, we need to keep in mind that at apex, we are loading the chassis and tires to their max limit. Because of this, we do not want to introduce more load from an additional input. If you apply throttle AT apex, you are increasing the chance of sliding or snapping because the kart should already be at it’s traction limit at apex, and now you are asking MORE of it by giving it throttle. In almost every situation or corner, you want to be rolling into throttle BEFORE you get to the apex, so that when you hit that apex, you have already compensated for the increased load coming from acceleration. Now your track is very twisty and has some complex sections where this may not be possible, but for most straightforward corners that should be the goal. By working on rolling into the throttle earlier and more progressively, you’ll probably also find that using those big curbs at apex is easier, as you’ll have compensated for that extra load of bumping over the curb already and it won’t want to snap as bad. Jumping over a curb while also dumping in a bunch of throttle at the same time is a prime recipe to go sideways. It may require that you brake slightly harder or earlier to get to throttle sooner. Super common thing is drivers try pushing too hard into the braking zone and they don’t get the kart slowed down enough and end up late to throttle.
3 - Some of the corners it also looks like you’re just simply trying too hard on entry. Specifically look at 0:29 where you seem to lighten the rear too much by charging in and braking too aggressively over the crest.
4 - I would also try some slight changes on hand position on the wheel. The kart will work best if you are pushing on the wheel and forcing your body back into the seat, allowing for maximum stability and weight-transfer. Based on your hand position and general arm posture it looks more like you are pulling on the wheel and using your biceps to turn the kart. I try and teach my drivers to straighten their arms out more rotate their wrists in a little bit, and steer more with their shoulders. This will give a more stable base, keep the kart more consistent, and it will be less likely to snap on you when you hit a curb or bump. By rotating your wrists in a bit, you make a more direct connection with the wheel and your palms, stiffening up the relationship between the wheel and your body which will reduce instability in the kart. When you pull on the wheel, every bump or curb wants to pull the wheel out of your hands, but when you push on it, you are the one driving through the bumps and curbs. Drive the kart instead of letting it drive you. This seems like little stuff but remember you are the biggest piece of weight on the kart so every little thing you do with your posture can have an effect.
Honestly otherwise it doesn’t look too bad. You’re pushing hard, but just maybe a bit too hard.
I know it’s not the same track, but one of my videos here shows my feet and hands pretty well so it’s easy to see what my inputs are and how I’m managing the load through the kart.
Let me know if you need anything clarified!
TJ
Wow, thank you so much for such extensive and thoughtful feedback, TJ. I will reply more thoroughly once I’ve really had a chance to observe, analyze, and let it sink in!
Thanks,
Caleb
TJ, thanks again for taking the time to give feedback on my driving. While a little nerve-racking to open myself up to outside opinion, lol, it’s been a helpful adventure, which has me thinking about driving details that were off my current radar and well worth looking at. Any speed I’ve ever gained as a driver from when I first started is pretty much down to seat time and thinking it out, and now that I’m trying to find the last tenths of time out there making breakthroughs just gets harder and more nuanced, so fresh eyes are a very welcome advantage.
1 - USING THE THROTTLE AS A TOGGLE
You’re definitely on to something here. I think it’s something I’ve been doing for a long while, and the result is now getting exacerbated with more torque available to my foot. I will work on trying to be smoother.
As an aside, which doesn’t excuse my lack of metering my right foot, is that in the middle of the session my video is from I just switched back to the RokGP coil (the only difference between it and SuperRok) which gives the engine more low end torque, and to compound things also ran the highest gear ratio I’ve ever run anywhere - 10/82 (8.2 ratio). Again not an excuse, but it sure was the right recipe to make a mistake I was already committing look especially bad!
2 - WHERE IN THE CORNER APPLYING THE THROTTLE
I totally get the explanation for the timing you’re promoting (e.g., apply throttle before apex), and I see by watching your own video at 1/4 speed that you are getting on the throttle then. I had to absorb and think about this for a while, and then realized that I’m not doing my later throttle application on accident (I watched my own video on 1/4 and felt like I was normally getting back on just after apex), and that I heard of reasons for waiting for the throttle from a professional kart driver’s video.
Just to be sure that I wasn’t imaging all of this in my head (it wouldn’t be the first time!), I spent some time tracking the subject down:
Timing Our Initial Throttle Application
https://blayze.io/blog/karting/how-to-apply-the-throttle-correctly-on-the-race-track"Where we pick up our initial throttle application does heavily depend on the type of corner we are in and what happens after that corner.
But, there is one general rule that we can apply to almost all corners: We do not want to pick up initial throttle before the apex or before we can start to unwind the steering wheel.
Are you picking up the throttle before the apex? That is typically a big sign that we are over slowing the entry of the corner and we need to work on our brake zone to roll in more entry speed and not let our throttle be the fix to over slowing corner entry."
“… It comes down to knowing what the kart does when you get back on the gas and knowing when to hit the throttle. Again, make sure to remember that when you get back on the gas the kart wants to go straight so make sure it’s pointed in the direction you want it. Be patient with the gas, it’s okay to roll a lot to the center of the corner…” (from the video linked in the article)
I’m keeping an open mind to both approaches and will experiment.
3 - OVER-CHARGING ENTRIES
Agreed, and at a few the spots on the track. Can see it in lap compares as well. Particularly, the turn you mention at 0:29 was indeed where in RaceStudio that it shows I lost the most time vs my personal best lap (different day).
4 - HAND POSITION, POSTURE
I’ll have to pay a more attention to this. I feel pretty aware and conscious of trying to stay more pushed back going into hard braking areas, but beyond those specific places on the track I guess I’m not very in touch with what I’m up to in terms of my reactions with the kart. I think this will take some time, patience, and focus to become more aware of what I’m doing with my hand position/posture.
Happy to help! I would fully disagree with that drivers words here and I find it odd he would say something like that, because if you go watch any of his on-boards, you’ll see he is on the throttle before almost every apex: https://youtu.be/yLz6z7kZDMk?si=IRw1gleGSmUg2y2c
At least when he’s not battling. Or as I said, there are instances where you would delay throttle if you need to set up a corner immediately after one apex or something like that. But listen for his engine note and pause it where he’s at in the corner in that video and for most of the corners he is on throttle before apex.
Cincinnati has a lot of long apexes and back to back corners so some of them you need to be patient on throttle. So maybe another one of his on board videos would make it clearer.
The most important aspect of it is managing that tire load through all your inputs so you don’t go over the limit of the tire.
I disagree that throttle input straightens the kart out. Obviously that isn’t true always because when you hit the throttle you’re going sideways… throttle puts load and torsion through the frame so it rotates the kart, not straightens it.
Yeah, I watched the video you just linked to and indeed that driver is generally getting on the gas before the apex, completely counter to his own coaching advice.
Also, good point to redirect the conversation to proper loading of the kart. The chapter that Terry Dove had in his book about that was the first time I had really considered things around that subject and it made a lot of sense and helped my driving. Thinking about it in that context helps a lot.
Thanks for sticking through to help me figure all this out!
(the conversation went on a bit from here into finer and finer detail, but what is posted above are the meat and potatoes of it )