Well that sounds interesting…
Do whatever you love. I state this first.
However as the question is directed at me let me explain. I am a purist. I seek out what I believe to be the most fulfilling experience from a physical and cultural point of view. I like to share that passion.
For me having one engine to race doesn’t allow for a full experience of our hobby. Take the class I co-organise. There’s tens (maybe nearly 100 or so) of different engines and carbs. Each one with their own stories, own narratives. Built and designed with blood, sweat and tears by (often idiosyncratic) individuals. Each one built for to the limits of what was technically capable at the time. The X30 now is pretty much the same engine that launched in 2004. The Rotax has barely changed since '97. If we take Rotax’s first FIA engine through to when they made the MAX
Bombardier Rotax R 100 DS
Bombardier Rotax R 100 DS A
Bombardier Rotax R 100 DS B
Bombardier Rotax R 100 DS C
Bombardier Rotax R 100 DS D
Bombardier Rotax R 100 DSE
Bombardier Rotax R 100 DS E - L
we have a plethora of development, design and interest where they competed against everyone else (and by everyone else there’s a BIG list of engine manufacturers). And underneath that you have the Brits who were competing with Solos, EMEs, TKMs… it’s layers upon layers of intrigue. I am not even particularly well versed in the activities of development wither, but those who are can go on for hours upon hours, and we often do. It meas you can have conversations and interact with the sport of karting in a totally different way.
As a competitor you can express yourself in multiple ways. With an X30, it’s different. You are locked in and expression come via the single-experience of simply driving or racing. That’s fine by me, that’s how people interact with the sport, and there is nothing wrong with that. What some see as bugs, I see as features, and what others see as features, I see as bugs.
I think about it like music as it is somewhat analogous. Modern pop music, from a production point of view, is now very defined, very formulated, very much polished. The music is less complex to serve as big a demographic as possible. It’s mostly the same, but a lot of people enjoy it. If you like that kind of ting, good for you. But like with karting, it’s nice to remind people of the older stuff (and some of modern stuff that fits that philosophy), which I believe to be culturally richer and more interesting.
Products like the MAX and X30 are juggernauts that have taken advantage of a latent demand. What I like, is not what most people seem to care about, hence why we are a relatively small niché. But naturally we will shout the loudest because our passion is very much defined by what I’ve said already.
3 Likes
Okay, I get that, in the same way I understand guys who love ‘60s and ‘70s muscle cars, and guys who play vinyl over their mono block tube amps. There is a purity and simplicity. But IMHO, most of the attraction to such things stems from nostalgia and aesthetics rather than objective metrics.
New muscle cars are objectively superior in every respect (faster, better handling, better fit and finish, safer, more comfortable, more luxuries and features, etc.). Modern audio equipment sounds fantastic if it’s good stuff, and it comes with instant random access, searchability, compact mobile storage, streaming and AirPlay. You can talk about analogue accuracy and warmth all you want, but the new stuff would win any contest governed by objective standards, particularly when you compare vinyl media to digital files.
Not that there’s anything wrong with appreciating the sights, sounds, smells and nostalgia of old cars, or the analogue accuracy and warmth of vinyl and tubes; as a guy who loves mechanical watches, I totally get it. There is a mechanical artistry to them that simply doesn’t exist in a G Shock (not even the Frogman, lol).
I’m not into vinyl, tube amps, or old cars, but I understand the interest and passion some have for them.
I have no experience yet in karting culture, so I have no views on that yet, but I do like the TaG platform for its modern convenience and reliability. I also like the idea of equipment parity so that success is dependent more on driving prowess than mechanical advantage. It’s the driving experience that attracted me to karting and the TaG format that closed the deal for me. Maybe driving an old school kart would convert me, now that I’ve already crossed the entry barrier.
I suspect that TJ is right: karting needs both to survive and thrive.
BTW, I just saw a couple of your videos about old school two stroke 100 cc motors. Very entertaining.
1 Like
y analogy spoke more about the music than the equipment, i.e the culture. Older pop music is more complex and interesting, and in many ways is more valuable too because of it. Is Old Music Killing New Music? - by Ted Gioia
By the way, those objective measures, which i I don’t attach much value to from a human experience pov, you can apply an X30 and you’ll find it isn’t the fastest kart nor the least expensive. it’s very very very old technology. There’s nothing modern about a 2-stroke X30 
With the 100cc it isn’t just about the driving experience, it’s about the over-arching culture. It’s beyond nostalgia. It’s about the whole sport and how you interact with, and this extends to modern multi-manufacturer classes like KZ and what not.
Yeah not a perfect analogy, I guess, but I was referring more to format preferences than old vs. new tech. My guess is that there hasn’t been anything new in 2 stroke motor technology in many years (other than improvements in manufacturing/tolerances), and clutches/starters are nothing new.
I’m not suggesting that the X30 is a superior/newer technology compared to 100cc direct drive. Rather, I’m expressing the view that the TaG format is, from my perspective, a superior format due to push starting, not being able to idle, having little to no parity, lousy reliability and going slower. It seemed to me that there must be something else going on that drives the preference for old school 100cc direct drive.
Thanks for the explanation. It’s hard to fully appreciate it without having the experience. But it sounds like it’s a combination of the direct drive, high revving driving experience, the fun physicality of starting the kart, the elegant simplicity of the design, and the culture of open and diverse individual approaches and innovation, which keeps things interesting.
I’m a music fanatic and I like both old and new stuff. There’s no accounting for taste, which is what all this comes down to, it seems to me.
My local track’s lap record
Formula A (100cc) 40.14
Senior X30 41.46
This pattern is largely followed when raced at the correct period weight.
So CCs aren’t everything 
Weight, lack of rev-limit and being race-bred motors makes up for having 25cc less.
Secondly, you say push starting is not superior. I don’t have to pay for batteries, nor worry abut charging them. I don’t have to worry about starter motors, nor clutches. My legs cost me nothing and the karts weight a LOT less, which means getting them on and off stands isn’t a hassle. Especially the podless stuff. So this notion that TaG is superior is just subjective not objective observation. I happen to like bump starting, and much prefer the lack of clutch from a driving perspective pov. I raced a Rotax this year ad needed to buy a spare battery, charge it for, to me, no real purpose. I like the slightly jelly legs you get before a final standing next to your kart. The slight nerves… it all adds to the experience.
Lousy reliability is a weird one. The pistons don’t last as long, but as a driver you’ve got more responsibility, certainly with jetting. These karts reward intelligence from the driver to manage things. Again, this isn’t a downside, it’s an upside. So it’s all about perspectives. What you see as bugs I see as features, what you see as features, I see as bugs. Let’s not forget the FIA classes ditched TaGs for their elite level, most technically advanced, classes. TaGs are very last year This was after a period from 2007 when they added them to the engines. It was not a success.
I understand why TaG is popular, I just spend time promoting something that I hope catches those who might get something out of it. I know it’s not for everyone, but that’s sometimes is a good thing.
I understand it’s hard to understand when you’re coming in and X30 is what’s there, and I have no issue with those that enjoy what they do.
Fair enough. I’ll be interested to try one if I get the opportunity.
Just occurred to me that we’re working our way slowly back to sudam engines (which are basically 125cc versions of old 100cc formula).
That would be nice.
1 Like
You know I love direct drive, but… TaG is absolutely superior in terms of market fit as demonstrated by it’s numbers. The market would prefer batteries and extra weight over organic starters (legs).
2 Likes
The best selling karting magazine in the UK doesn’t feature TaG karts tho?
yes, I would never make the argument against the free market BUT by extension we then have to agree, by this metric, sim racing is superior than real life karting for the act of driving and racing because the numbers of people who race sims vastly outnumbers karts. People aren’t buying karts, they buy Gran Turismo, iRacing, AC etc… Many of whom are spending big on both hardware and software.
So even with TaG you have to go against market trends to promote it. In this sense that form of karting is facing the same ‘problem’ of bestowing qualities on a market that is seemingly rejecting it… and i learnt that with the Budget kart Challenge this year. In the end if we blindly follow market trends, and not try to understand what we do as a cultural thing, we will loose what makes us who we are. What I do does ‘exist’ within the free market, I am not rejecting it as a concept, the opposite, but general market trends don’t necessarily become superior to niché market trends, and those niché market trends can outlast general market trends because they are culturally stronger.
So we have to understand things in a different way so can navigate the sport how we see fit, and how we share that passion with others. I don’t chase what I think people will like, I just chase what I like and what I think can give joy to others in ways they may never have considered before. Also, as the FIA learnt… following misunderstood market trends can have devastating consequences.
I don’t really buy that economic argument. It’s like saying that cars and sims are the same market. Video games are a much broader market than karts ever will be. Most people wouldn’t even like driving a racing kart as fast as they can, just like most people wouldn’t want to skydive, or get a pilot’s license, or race spec Miatas. Actually driving fast, and assuming that risk, is a different thing than video games even though there is some natural overlap between sim drivers and real world kart drivers.
I’m not really advocating TaG as “better” than direct drive (how would I really know?)—I’m just interested in the direct drive appeal and playing devil’s advocate to draw out the explanation. I do understand that ultimately, light is right in racing, and I can understand why the serious enthusiast (and FIA) would find the lighter weight, simpler kart more appealing now. But that seems to go out the window with KZ…
I’m interested, but I’m just happy to have a convenient, fast kart to play with at this point.
1 Like
I have a dd2 and 100cc karts and I always have a bigger smile after driving the the 100cc karts. On paper the dd2 is “better” it’s faster, smoother to drive and has better brakes, but there is just something about a kart that weighs 40kg less and revs to 19000rpm. The whole experience is just more raw and direct.
Another bonus is the tyres last twice as long
2 Likes
I had to look dd2 up. Didn’t even know that existed. A 2 speed direct drive shifter…interesting.
It’s not technically a direct drive it still uses a clutch. Just that the axle runs through the gearbox so is directly driven by the gearbox no chain
They are really cool but seem to only exist in certain spots. For example they race them a lot in South Africa, I think.
A modern X30 with plastic pods, is more risk than a podless 100cc kart. The former has broader appeal than the latter. The same with sims has a broader appeal than X30. The point is that we if we are using terms like superior in terms of market acceptance, then we logically can extend that to things very easily, and that include simming. Sim racing is competitive and fulfills the physical act of driving. Is it less risky? Yes. But so is rentals to X30 and X30 to 80s retro karting.
Sim racing’s success isn’t predicated on lack of risk either. It’s just way more accessible. Why buy expensive old vinyls when you can listen to digital?
So we’re all hyper-nichéd to the extreme
Easy for a fit tuner / mechanic. That are not all so fit.
If you are a self-starter, do you have to pickup the rear wheels like the old DD days.
With the decompression valve, that seems to not be the case.
While I love a lot of @Alan_Dove’s takes, I gotta disagree a bit on his overarching view.
As karting nuts and motorheads, direct drive is definitely cool. But what fuels that part of our sport, especially the top of our sport, is the recreational and club level sales of karts and engines. And for that, the majority of current recreational and club level karters simply want their kart to consistently start up and run well.
For that reason alone, TaGs fare far better than shifters and direct drives. Even KA100s and 206s having either an onboard starter or pull cord makes things far more attractive than the old days of external starters with Yamaha KT100s stateside.
That isn’t to say they don’t want to work on the karts. Tinkering on a basic level of gear swaps and tire pressure is still very much part of the fun at the track from a club guy’s perspective.
But I’d encourage everyone reading this thread to go to their local track on a club day or popular practice day and pay attention to the Shifter drivers struggling with ratchet straps to start their kart on a stand and then walk over to a 206 guy hanging out in between his sessions, or a Rotax driver doing the same.
For purists and for pros, direct drive racing, multi manufacturer racing is awesome. And multi manufacturer racing, if built to tight specs, can work at the club level too. But, club guys and hobbyists aren’t in the habit of stocking their own parts. So having a spec class where your neighbors and on-site shops and teams all have the same parts you do, and expertise on your engine, is a key factor in success.
All of the above listed is a big bonus to the electric engines that are working their way through development into the markets. Simplicity and ease of use are the biggest selling factors for the majority of our sport nowadays, like it or not. If that wasn’t the case, the race team business model that has infiltrated all levels of our sport wouldn’t be so lucrative.
2 Likes
I haven’t made an argument against this
I apply my philosophy to a very certain type of karting, that has, if I don’t say so myself, been a successful thing. I learnt that trying to convince people who want convenience is a waste of time back in 2010 when I started F100. And I did buy and race a budget Rotax this year to encourage people to take up club karting, so I am not even actively trying to change people away from that way of being if that’s what they are truly about.
I do however caution against this inference that one should accept what is laid out before them and not persue what they feel in their bones is right. I know a few of team owners who secretly aren’t really fans of modern karting. I don’t think it’s healthy that we don’t try and make things better/more interesting. Within any market there is often disenfranchised individuals who would be better served with something else given the opportunity. I know young guys in the retro racer scene who are around 18 years old and tuning/building their own motors… and these people are hobby/recreational racers. The modern way wasn’t good for them nor convenient to their interests. So it’s about perspective.
I was asked to present reasons as to why my philosophy is the way it is. If people race X30, 206s … whatever… doesn’t bother me. I just want to help create or support something awesome for people who think like me. I am not the kinda guy to let the market unfold and act within whatever happens… I am not money motivated. I want to to help create stuff (or supportive creative stuff/new ventures). Sometimes it works… sometimes it doesn’t.
… and don’t forget this is about OK-N. The FIA may as well not bother if they decide that X30 and Rotax are what people want for National and International karting. I have said from the beginning this is a psychological and philosophical challenge that needs to be communicated. See bugs as features. I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that the FIA target clubbies racing once a month, but they do have a lot of work to do as their product can’t fit within the single-spec framework.
1 Like
Has anyone ordered an engine in North America yet?