They considered this seriously?
It’s also to improve. A driver will only get so good racing against the same club/regional competition every week. Going to a national event provides better competition and more learning opportunities. I ran 3 of 4 USPKS events this year and was only in the 20’s at best, but it teaches a lot and it’s nice to have a comparison on a national scale to everyone else. I learn more racing mid-pack nationally than I would winning a club championship.
3 Likes
I feel like that would only discourage the racers on a tight budget compared to those with deep pockets. I can only imagine that if you had the funds, it would just be considered another cost of racing, where as the independent would suffer more. I think the better choice would be to exclude the guilty driver from a future event. Not on first offence, but lets say you have X number of infractions over the course of an event then you are suspended from the next event. There would have to be room for protest and a chance to plead one’s case, but the first time someone is suspended, the rest of the guilty will certainly take notice.
Collecting it would be a headache and seemingly oppressive in the case of a “$500” deposit was required as part of the entry fee. Where would this money go? The club, organization or charity?
It’s too bad that we have to police driving with artificial means. I’ve been at few big national events and the amount of bashing really varies. The SuperNats was like indoor karting at its’ worst and seemed to bring out the worst in some. Conversely, at the Rotax Grands, sure there was some bumping but the driving was tough but respectful. I think that familiarity with your competitors makes a difference. Maybe if every driver looked each other in the eye and shook hands before the race, there would better behavior on the track.
Like Aaron picked up on, the starts are where most bumpers get knocked in. Starting closer to the 1st turn, but also making sure the karts are in line and approaching slowly would be key, depending on the type of corner. The final round of the TSRS this year was held at Amarillo Kart Circuit, and they started on the “back starlight” approaching turn 16, which is a tight, slow left hander. In the final, the field was so spread out coming to the first corner that half the field hit the corner at full speed, while the front half was slower. There were about 8 karts that came together, with some of the front having no control over the karts behind hitting them. Even though we don’t use PBB in our series, I don’t think they would have helped in that situation.
I have had 4 bumper penalties:
3x - I was driven off the track (by a competitor) on lap 1 and into a barrier. 1x I put myself in a bad position, but 2x I got Verstappen’d.
4th time - I ran into someone late in the race. Totally my fault. Deserved.
I also was the beneficiary a couple of times of others’ bumper penalties. Most notable 4th and 5th were banging on one another right in front of me. I decided to stay out of it and watch the bang fest. Penalties handed out - I was awarded 4th. Candidly the guys in front were racing hard but nothing was too over the top. Personally, I don’t know where the line is on popping a PBB so I try to avoid all nose contact. In the old days, I definitely used the nose to do the old bump and run. I would not ruin the other guys race, just enough to get inside.
Summary - I don’t really care PBB or not. Probably not needed in Masters
3 Likes
Paul, you might be onto something here…I assume your point is masters are of an age where this is a competitive hobby and not a path to other forms of racing. I have always found it odd that adult is 15+, this is a wide age range. Frankly, most racers under the age of 30 have a different view of risk/reward and even more so if they are the ones not punching a clock to pay for their racing.
This is my biggest reason for liking PBB. I would like to race more senior. But I’m not as aggressive as I could be. A. I have to pay for the crap I break. Along with fix it. B. I have to work on Monday. I’d rather not have to limp around.
And lucky for me I have time for this all to play out as my kiddo still has one year before cadet.
1 Like
I’m sure that most of you all know this but thought I would add it to this thread that USPKS is staying with PBB. United States Pro Kart Series Announces 2022 Push Back Bumper Update - United States Pro Kart Series
1 Like
I was looking for this thread to post this…
I try to contain my bias but I do believe USPKS is making the right call for this for now. I’m not certain on all the penalties that were or were not called at the Winter Series race, but just from watching the driving certainly looked a bit dirtier. I saw a LOT of “bump-and-run” passes, and a return of what we used to refer to as “loading”, where a big train of karts just stacks up and shoves the lead kart wide into the corner. For example, Garcia just locked onto Ingratta(?)'s rear bumper coming into the final corner and shoving him so far off the track that Garcia went off too and Wheldon swept through to win.
I think we have a whole generation of kids who have done most of their racing with the PBB now and will struggle for a bit to stay clean without it.
The starts at the Winter Series were not as big of a disaster as I thought they would be though. That could be down to track layout, with the first corner being a 90° corner, and then some quick left and right to spread the field before the first hard braking zone, and with them starting them pretty close to the corner to eliminate first corner incidents.
I heard a lot of upset people who were just blasted off the track in Homestead with no repercussions. We will see if it gets better as people readjust and the officials readjust.
4 Likes
It’s good that SKUSA and USPKS are different wrt PBB. At least there will be a chance to compare the two during 2022 and then change to better of the two for 2023.
1 Like
The biggest thing I saw and enjoyed was seeing guys making moves from the back on the opening lap. Being timid in turn 1 seemed to be out the window.
I was watching the highlights from Saturday’s KA100 Final, and watching the way Cole Morgan just pushed his way through was kind of dirty, and maybe a function of no PBB. He then got blasted by Fletcher in the next corner as retaliation (also possibly due to no PBB), and ruined 3 guys’ race.
1 Like
On @XanderClements’ Kart Chaser the other day, the drivers/experts were nearly unanimous in their belief that the first go without PBB in Homestead was not a success.
I can’t comment on what happened as I wasn’t there or watched the videos, but going by the comments here is seems there are issues to be resolved.
The officials have to be hot on every bit of contact otherwise the incentive not to load people isn’t high, especially if you’re mid pack and the eyes aren’t watching. Not an easy job
Anyone hear anything regarding SKUSA’s video camera review systems? That was supposed to be the big advancement to help curb poor driving standards. That they couldn’t have eyes on everything, so they had invested a lot into cameras to help police things.
Even with that, I just don’t see how you can review every incident in a 40 kart field.
So from what I understand, the video system works by having the corner marshals call in that there is an incident, and the video review team goes over the footage and decides who, if anyone, is at fault.
To me, it didn’t feel like they were calling any more penalties than before, and in my (unqualified) opinion, they’re not handing out harsh enough penalties. Jeremy Fletcher got a 5 second penalty for purposefully retaliating and taking out a driver that he felt did him wrong. More penalties, and harsher consequences, are what I think are really needed to curb the driving standards that have developed.
3 Likes
I was just going to mention that this was the only penalty he got for that incident. He cost 3 other guys their race. Granted, Fletcher did end up at the back of the field, but that was only because his bumper fell off.
Aaron, did you happen to see the incident that got Cole Morgan DQ’d from the event?
I did not, but I have heard from multiple people who saw it directly that, essentially, Cole was understandably frustrated with Jeremy, so when Fletcher came off the track, Cole went “what was that” and gave him a pretty gentle “use your head next time” push to the helmet. Not terribly aggressive, not an actual hit, just a light push you might give a 12 year old that doing something weird to get attention.
This coming directly after Vegas where Connor Zillisch hit Cole (still lightly but a little harder) in the helmet on broadcast and got nothing for it, I understand Ryan Perry’s frustration with how SKUSA decided on everything.
Personal opinion: neither instances of physical contact should be penalties. In both cases, the driver that got hit in the head earned it, nobody was hurt or even scared of being hurt, and we’re in Senior at this point. Let them sort it out themselves in the scales, and hand out on-track penalties as needed (they hadn’t done a great job of that either from what I understand. I was a little distracted pointing a camera and not getting taken out by go karts outside turn 12, so I didn’t see the racecraft unless it was in the top 5). Honestly, if you clean someone out on track, you probably deserve to get your clock rocked a little bit. That’d certainly be a significant deterrent towards on track racing, just add something in the waivers for it.
I don’t have an opinion on either instance and am all for a spirited debate in the scale line, but one thing to consider is the class starts at age 15 (a minor) and there are plenty of 18+ (adult) drivers as well, so there kind of has to be a no tolerance policy of physical altercations, regardless of how tame they are. A little leeway and soon you might get an adult assaulting a minor and that’s not good.
That happened to that guy at SuperNats the one year when he got out of his kart and started whaling on a kid in the first corner melee, and I’m pretty sure he got his with charges and was banned from SKUSA, as he was an adult and the other kid was a minor.
1 Like