Off topic: 2020 Formula 1 season discussion

As a relatively new fan of F1, I am finding this year far more entertaining than the last couple of years.

While Mercedes are unquestionably dominant (again), it’s been really exciting seeing the mid field and back field light up. The pink cars have found amazing pace and are fighting at the opposite end of the grid, as compared to years past. Renault is looking like they may well be the best if the rest and if it keeps going, maybe top 3?

What about Gasly’s amazing drive to 4th until safety car put him in his place, sadly.

Also, Ferarri. I feel great frustration for Seb. He’s such a talented driver who never resorts to BS and speaks thoughtfully. I find it odd how heavy the mantle of a shit car is on Vettel. Neither he nor Lecoerc can do much about their situation, but Seb, in particular, seems to be getting treated like he’s old and in the way. How quickly we forget all his accomplishments.

Anyways, this has been really interesting, so far. How do you all like it as compared to season past?

Also, if you had to pick 1 season as the most interesting/best, which would it be?

I’m bored to see Mercedes so dominant and disappointed to see Bottas not making the step we keep hoping for to really challenge Lewis. He’s totally there some days but is too inconsistent to challenge regularly.

I don’t like Hamilton, but it would be very hard to deny that he might possibly be the greatest, most complete Formula 1 driver we’ve ever seen, and that’s pretty incredible to witness.

I think the Renault result is more of a one-off. I don’t see them challenging the top 5 regularly. Just a couple weeks ago they were dismal. It’s so hard to choose those between the top-midfield. Racing Point, Renault, and McLaren seem to all have potential, but finding the optimal setup week to week is difficult. None of them are particularly consistent.

Sad to see Seb so mistreated by Ferrari. And pretty incredible to see Ferrari continue to play blame games, politics, and continue their trend of general pettiness and incompetence towards driver management and race strategy. For the oldest, most historic team on the grid to have their driver (Vettel) revising the strategy mid-race from the cockpit because they are making mistakes is laughable, and seeing how they just straight up lied to the media about his contract negotiations pre-season is absurd. Why would you shatter all the trust with your supposed number 1 before the season starts? It’s lunacy. Couple that with the entire engine saga and it makes the whole team look like a bunch of amateurs. Sucks to see. I want Ferrari to be up there fighting like a proper works team, not getting overtaken by their customers for 15th.

Honestly it’s all a bit meh to me so far this season, but I really am enjoying these back-to-back races. It’s nice to have something to watch almost every weekend, though it’s very tough on the teams.

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I put together this graph. I kinda feel like F1’s regulations (complex engines and aero for cars, and super licences for young drivers) combined with the franchise nature of the team structure means it’s stagnating a bit. This year has really hit home how ‘samey’ everything is.

I will add that it’s a miracle we’re seeing any racing this year, so I won’t complain about lack of on track action. I think Ham deserve legend status to be fair and a 7th title will cap that. Max is a once in a lifetime talent though. Been on track with both and Max just blew my mind

I have to say Max is impressive. I haven’t warmed to him, personally, as he seems “young” in terms of how he communicates orally. Sometimes he appears a bit arrogant but I suppose that’s normal at this level of competition. I sort of get a moto gp vibe from Max’s interviews. Not a ton of chill.

His driving, however, does all the important talking. And he is so very, very fluent.

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Max is good enough not to have to care about his media persona. I despise media training with a passion. Imagine how modern media would deal with Senna, Hunt and co (who were actually violent)

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Look at Lando and Carlos. They manage to appear to be themselves and not (unpleasantly) cocky. That being said, that team goes out of their way to capture their drivers genuine personalities with all sorts of non-racing specific content:

If hunt and senna were violent, glad we didn’t get to see that side of them. Nothing more pathetic than men fighting.

We did, on multiple occasions :slight_smile:

I’m not at all impressed with F1 again this year. Great drivers, but with virtually no racing whatsoever at the front. ForumlaDull is what I call it. Which is a shame, because I love some of the tracks and would really like to see action at the front instead of just someplace in the middle.

Year after year they think they have THE solution to make the racing better. Things change (costing teams yet more money) but whatever the case they seem to get one dominant team that fits those regulations (McLaren, RedBull, Mercedes). In the end they create F1 cars that are too complex and stop good competition. Drivers spend as much time it seems messing with the settings than driving (except for the Ferrari drivers who also have to tell the team what to do). How many buttons do you really need on a steering wheel? Radio, Pit Speed, Drink, On/off, Start?

My solution (not that they care) - reward weights. In this lopsided F1 funding / limited development structure they have created it’s the only way I can think of to quickly have multiple people competing for the top spot each race (or at least after the first few of the season). Mercedes won’t like it, but the fans would. Which means it will never happen…

Until then I’ll watch Indycar, where you don’t know which team or driver will win the next race. Yes it’s essentially a spec series, but at least it is entertaining. I’ll save time and just view the highlights of the F1 race to see what order the top 3 came in, which is usually the same as qualifying anyhow.

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I should watch more indycar. What I have seen, I have enjoyed. I also enjoy the E-Tron series. Go Stoeffel!

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F1 hasn’t been exciting over the past few years but I’m finding this year enjoyable. Big fan of Up and coming young guns. We’re probably about 2-3 years out from good racing. Sad to see Ferrari in their current state. Boring to watch Lewis dominate, feel bad for Bottas who gets second hand from Hamilton. Max and Daniel are my favorites.

If you haven’t seen it, watch the f1 show on Netflix. Gives a great background of the past couple seasons.


Reward weights is an instant switch off for me. That’s not racing that’s manufactured entertainment. I do agree the rules are needlessly complex, esp in engine department, and that allows technical advantages to become entrenched and so on as we’ve seen with Merc. Multi manufacturer racing always needs to be simple from a technical standpoint. i.e n/a engines not technical turbo hybrids

MotoGP’s system of development credits might be a good halfway house

I do enjoy watching IndyCar now and again, but the last race was horrific. Indy500 was good but that was partly because of the unusual level of danger that race has. The idea of multiple winners automatically being good is not something that rings true with me. It borderline becomes random and it makes you wonder how much of what you’re watching is reality or just luck. And it’s all spec chassis the levels of interest is lower too. A Dallara wins every race no matter what.

I think top level karting has the formula about right, but it just has no commercial viewership.

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Formula 1 has been boring for me for several seasons.
There are is a certain driver whom I can’t stand, who while being a very talented person I believe is the least talented world champion ever.

I think formula 1 regulations should be simplified to an enormous degree.
250 kgs (or some lower then now number) of down force front and rear, generated in whatever way each manufacturer decides, wings or floor. But whatever it is need to be a simple and cheap arrangement.
Fuel should be mandated so there is a minimum amount that must be in the car, so no one needs to save fuel
Tire deg needs to be increased, if tyres get destroyed that should be the teams fault not the tyre manufacturer. 2-3 pit stops a race minimum.

Very general rules so that cars look different from each other, and actual development can take place by manufacturers.

I think the last time I truly cared about the battle up front was during the Nico/Lewis days. I thought we might get some of that same action this year but Lewis has buried Valteri.

The midfield has been more exciting and even though I don’t agree with the copycat Merc of racing point at least it’s provided some more competition. Haas and Ferrari are hard to watch, but at least Williams has closer targets now.

I’d argue the 2019 season saw some cracking races. Monza, Hungary and Brazil were fantastic. Verstappen and Leclerc’s Silverstone showdown cemented it as a classic.

This year started well but Ferrari’s fall from grace has underlined the new regulations can’t arrive quick enough. The FIA’s simulations on downforce wake sound promising and sound like they’ll allow cars to properly follow each other.

That said I’d hate the rules to smother innovation. Possum Bourne once described F1 cars as ‘overgrown go karts’, but they’re so far beyond that now. Mercedes-AMG’s split turbocharger design turned the competition upside down and is ground-breaking for the automotive industry. That team’s relentless improvement has pushed the F1 car to new performance levels as well. I enjoy watching them extract record pace from these beasts in qualifying. It still blows my mind that Hamilton’s pole lap at Spa this past weekend was half a second quicker than a derestricted Porsche 919 Evo’s lap record (albeit set in 2018).

Also loved the Drive to Survive seasons and learning more about the mid-field guys. Gasly’s Red Bull experience was hard to watch but he’s found his feet again at Alpha Tauri.

Ferrari’s fall was more about them circumventing the regulation, and getting caught, rather than a problem with the regulations. That could have happened, regardless of how the cars aero was designed.

Personally, I think that the season is fine. Formula 1 is the “build the best car you can” series, so you’re not always going to have the closest racing. IndyCar does a fine job of scratching that itch. :wink:

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While the race at the front can be quite boring F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport. Where the winners are who can operate in the grey area the best. Thats why I love it. Who can push the envelope the furthest. Im not sure how I feel about the new regulations for 2022 yet. Closer racing is cool. However, salary caps aren’t something I have been in favor of for any sport.

And on the Ferrari deal. I feel bad for the other teams that lost out on points/money due to what was deemed a breach of the rules. However, Ferrari kept all their championship points and championship money.

I will have to look more into this. I was watching Will Buxton chat and he implied the same thing. What did they do? AFAIK they built an engine that was overpowered and their aero/set up was around that engine? Current engine is same but massively de-tuned or something? Handlings borked because it’s set up for an engine it no longer has?

What is it that they allegedly did exactly? Also, is it just me or is Ferrari historically prone to these rule interpretation mishaps?

whatever they were doing it was very very clever

I think the problems this year are exacerbated by having a car design with a lot more hp in mind. When you remove the HP you’re left with a rather draggy car with not enough hp to power through it

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Clever but cheaty, IMO. That directly works around the fuel flow rule. Thanks.

F1 is cheaty by its very nature.

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