Split topic: Top Level Costs and KZ motors

Just looking for some general feedback from fellow racers. Does anyone have any real life comparisons to running the ROK Shifter engine vs running a Honda for a season?

Any other general thoughts? I often get asked what to buy from those looking to go shifter kart driving and I used to say the Honda to anyone starting, but with the price of the ROK and supposed reliability, I’m wondering how it stacks up.


@XanderClements do you know anyone that could give feedback on this?

in my opinion, Honda is a Great and beautiful “Motorcycle” engine, designed to jump hills , and run in short tracks, for a long period of “full trottle”…with a compact gear ratio, Vortex Rok shifter is designed specially for karting, on asphalt track, for long and medium street aways, almost 1000 more rpm (only because the Rev limiter ), Reed cage at the cases, lighted transmission, more exhaust port timing, it is a like a Formula one engine for a karting, stock from the box and only with a small carburetor (30mm) is already much faster and fun to drive , even when honda use a 38mm carb…You cannot compare one F1 engine with a motocross engine

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I have asked a couple people respond, racers and engine builders. So you have both perspectives.

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11 posts were split to a new topic: Stock Honda CR125 and Vortex Rok Shifter Comparison

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Stock Honda CR125 and Vortex Rok Shifter Comparison

Welcome Daniel @Bordogna_Engines

Those are all valid points, but… why should racers care about this? Why does it matter. Honest question.

I love my KZ as much as anyone. But my own personal “racer” preference doesn’t matter when it comes to keeping people in the sport. What matters is what is going to work for that person that I’m having a conversation with. That depends on their budget, location and personal goals.

The old “KZ\ICC vs Moto” debate is a over a decade old now and we’ve heard the same old arguments of purpose built vs motox blah blah blah. If we think about it, if those things really mattered to racers in the US, then we’d have KZs running across the nation. But we don’t. Moto is where it’s at with the exception of the F Series, Supernats and some pockets of road racing.

So what do you think the pros and cons are of the Rok and Moto that racers should consider?

Couple of questions that occurred to me that I think racer would be curious to know. They are likely answered elsewhere, but it’s always a good thing if we can avoid racers having to click all over the web to get answers to common questions.

  1. What are the differences between the Rok Shifter vs it’s KZ variant.
  2. How long can racers expect stability of rules and specifications for? i.e. are the rules locked-in for a period of time that allows them to run the same motor for a few years with having to buy “updates”.

KZ is the top class in Europe.

I don’t undestand why in America is not so popular…

Also there is no KZ at the US Open…

Hi Andrea,

Yes, I know, I’m from the UK I raced for CRG in Euro and WSK Super ICC in 2006 (precursor to KZ1).

The US Open was a Rotax based initiative, I was surprised it included Honda at all.

Yep, America likes to do its own thing.

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Here’s my observation as a European living in the US… (Not to be confused with my own personal view)

  • Lack of familiarity with the platform in general
  • Lack of penetration\authority of CIK\FIA in the US
  • Distribution and availability of dealers = cost
  • More expensive total cost of ownership compared to a moto.
  • Exchange rates and added import taxes
  • Perception that you have to have a Tec-Sav (or insert builder here) to stand a chance of being competitive
  • Perception that you have to have the latest homologation (or tricks within one) to compete
  • Perception that they are unreliable compared to motos
  • People got burned buying the “wrong” KZ (or ICC) motor

Why should US racers run KZ? What’s in it for them?

Doing it because Europe does, makes no sense. Sure, the ability to line up US and Europe more in terms of classes would be nice but how could it be done in a way that benefits racers both sides long term.

I would like to race more US in KZ and there is no chance to race here…

The only program running the KZ is the F-SERIES.
It’s only 6 races per year… the other race is the SKUSA in Las VEGAS, but it costs 10k$… crazy…

Motorsport is expensive.
KZ is maximum category of Karting all over the world.

I don’t agree in any of your points, sorry…

Whether you or I agree with those points doesnt matter. The fact is, this is the perception that KZ has to overcome in the US to see traction and growth.

Most racers in the US don’t care about what the “Maximum category” is. So that doesn’t matter to them. Sure, racing is is expensive, that doesnt mean racers are going to part with more money for the sake of it.

To me, $10k in vegas to rollup on the same grid as an Indy 500 winner and various other top pro drivers isn’t a bad deal. Where else in racing can you do that?

What you’re saying is that you like KZ, and you’d like to be able to race it more. That’s fair, and I share that but that view doesn’t make it convincing for anyone else.

With 10k$ in Europe you can run 2 WSK race in KZ2

But you said racing is expensive :laughing:

I think something like the Rok and IAME shifter will get some footing over here. It’s not quite full multi manufacturer KZ, but it has the sights and sounds. Combined with good marketing and distribution networks it stands a better chance of taking hold than a group of different importers struggling to do it all for different brands…

@Christopher the question of comparing of Rok vs KZ was more about helping explain to people about how it might be different so that they understand what it’s benefits are, and how it helps address some of the perception issues.

I don’t agree with this, WSK was $10k per round in 2006.

And I don’t know about KZ at Supernats but I did get quotes for X30 for some British drivers and that ranged from $2k to $6k not including entries, tires, fuel etc. So I’d be very surprised if KZ was only $10k.

Don’t get me wrong, you could race (and be competitive) for much much less, but that’s the prices teams are quoting.

I asked quotation in 2015 and 2016 for SKUSA in KZ.
Price without hotel , fuel and tires was around 10k$ …
In Europe ,if you want to race wsk, Italian Championship , DKM or whatever is around 5k$/race.
Karting cost in US is rediculous… engines and chassis cost is 1.5 , sometimes x2

I agree, karting cost here are too high.

Glad to hear karting prices have come down in Europe, maybe I was comparing to works teams (CRG, Birel etc).

Prices are crazy in 60 mini, OK and OKJ, those are the category where the business is making money, lot of money.
Look at the Baby Race Team ,probably they are making more money than Marussia in F1… they have 20 kids per weekend spending 20k Euro each…
Then at 14 years old , instead to go in KZ, they go directly to F4 or similar series.
If you look at the KZ2 there are a lot of drivers over 30 years old, but just few between 18 and 25…