I’m curious how various successful TaG drivers use the throttle at a nationally competitive level. I was told by a mentor a long time ago to treat the throttle pedal in X30 / PRD / KA100 karts like a light switch – on / off – no moderation.
The explanation given to me was that they don’t make enough power to really break traction and that being off throttle deprives the engine of oil since the gas / oil are mixed together.
This made sense to me, but coming from a car background I have ALWAYS moderated the throttle for optimum lap times with great results in Autocross, endurance racing, and sprint style racing with sports cars.
Curious what some of the successful competition guys do here. Are you on / off or do you hold a little throttle mid corner then ramp it up quickly like in a traditional sports car.
Maybe he meant that the general idea is being back to power ASAP and to climb to limiter as soon as possible? Given that there’s some grunt to 125tag, going flat immediately and always won’t work in some corners, obviously. Also, rotax stumbles if you slam the throttle flat from very low revs so you have to be progressive with power application in many cases.
Here is a vid of Norberg’s feet
There’s a few things at play. Kart turns on three wheels. Low end bogs if you set the wheel back down too early and ask it for 100. Engine trying to make power into turned wheel meets resistance.
You could theoretically drive a V so that your wheels are straight when you hop off brake and into full throttle and engine is receptive to full chuff. But you don’t have a gearbox and you’d get smoked.
There is so much to post on this topic, but I will try and keep it short.
I would say it’s the opposite of what your mentor told you. I coach not to use the throttle as an on-off switch. True, you don’t have the power to really break traction too much, but the thing to remember is that the kart will respond in kind to whatever input you give it. If you slam the throttle while the chassis is all loaded up mid-corner, you’re going to get a bunch more load going through the frame, which can induce all kinds of handling issues such as hopping or oversteer when the kart all of a sudden is shocked with additional input from your right foot.
You should almost always be applying throttle before you reach an apex. Almost every corner. We want to keep the load going through the kart as progressive and predictable as possible. To do that, we need to provide smooth inputs. If you are jumping to throttle too quickly before the apex you risk overloading the tire, the chassis, and also running out of track on the exit. On a longer corner, you might have to do a lot of throttle modulation or a very smooth throttle input to keep the kart in check through the entire corner. On a shorter corner, you can speed up all your inputs.
We should be tipping into throttle before apex, as quickly as possible, no doubt, but we have to manage the forces going through the kart, and for that reason we want to roll into throttle smoothly and keep the tire at it’s limit without shocking it into breaking grip.
Obviously the softer the tire, the quicker we can get to throttle. But even in X30 you’ll see most of the fastest guys on throttle before apex and rolling into it somewhat progressively.
Almost no input in a kart should be an on-off switch. We have to remember that the chassis is our suspension; it acts like a spring. If you load up a spring too abruptly and it releases, you get a big release of energy. Same with a kart chassis. You need to load up the spring of the frame progressively and not shock it with big harsh inputs.
As always TJ has given sage advice very eloquently. My shorter version: slow corners require slow throttle application, fast corners can handle fast throttle.
To clarify I was speaking about the level of throttle physically being put into the pedal (full throttle or no throttle) as opposed to how early the throttle is applied. Hope that makes sense. And to that I think the replies from TJ and the video Dom posted are more how I naturally use the gas pedal.
I always apply throttle before the apex in anything I drive, but my application in the kart has always been full throttle at the right moment as opposed to moderating. If I get a little wheel spin or rear yaw angle I will go off throttle completely then back to 100%.
The guy I learned from has 7 national titles and is a hall of fame inductee with a very successful history in a feeder series to Indy. He is extremely knowledgeable, very respected in the sport, and I never really questioned things he told me due to his success. But to my knowledge all successful drivers basically moderate the throttle as opposed to treating it as an on / off switch.
I am a very experienced racer with a lot of wins and have coached with manufacturers in the past. As I get to the next level in my karting specific driving and learning I want to not be stuck in a rigid way of thinking.
This forum has been really helpful and I appreciate being able to bounce ideas off you guys as I learn more. Thanks a lot!
Tbf I’m not a particularly skilled driver, so what i think is colored by that. But I think in general, what TJ is saying about balance is kind of the heart of things.
The mechanics of how it happens are probs variable but the best driving feels liquid., balanced, and expression of throttle fits the moment. The kart is squirted rather than fired, or at least it feels like that to me.
I was really struck by @NikG words, once. I think he was talking about the opposite extreme, basically never being full until wheels were dead straight.
I think always being full power, at the right moment, is doable, but it’s harder to do that reliably, to find that moment when you do it exactly at the right time, right as the kart settles and says “give me all of it”.
Perhaps it’s a bit of both (progressive/explosive) and having all of it in your experiential wheelhouse/bag of tricks is what’s needed.
Whatever the case, it seems to be a lifelong journey to master, or at least, become conversant in.
Even some of the best drivers are not fully aware of what they are actually doing on-track. Those with more innate natural talent just ‘do’ without thinking about it, so their perception of what they are doing isn’t always accurate.
It is a complicated subject for sure, I don’t think there is a one-above-all method when it comes to throttle.
Mainly, it depends of your corner entry. The way you approach the turn is going to change how you are going to go on throttle.
Then, it depends on the engine. You won’t open the throttle the same when driving a Rotax and a X30.
Finally, we need to take into account the carburetor setting.
What I aim for is a bit of rotation by going hard on throttle initially, so I dont have understeer on corner exit
Are you a Senna driver or a Prost driver? Your personal style makes a difference also. But when you’re on the limit of traction due to cornering, even a Briggs can spin the tires…a little.
This. So much this. It might not apply in the OP’s case, but fast drivers are sometimes not great coaches. The opposite can be true also, great coaches have lots of observations to draw from, even if they personally can’t execute what they coach, they can still talk others through it. This is not unique to karting or racing either.
In terms of throttle application, as others alluded to, it varies. There isn’t necessarily are right or wrong way. What works, works. Aside from driving differences, chassis setup can be a big factor too. If a driver tends to like a chassis setup that’s “flat” coming out of turns then yes, you might well be flat to the board almost immediately.
All that said, it’s worth trying what your coach is teaching and see if it “clicks” with you.
Basically, you want to be back to full throttle as early as possible without upsetting the kart. If you have to lift or breathe it a bit to stay on the track after that initial throttle input, you went too early. If you find you still have lots of track width on the exit, you went too late. If the kart reacts to throttle aggressively, you rolled into it too fast.
I like to have drivers pick one corner on a track to practice this, so they aren’t overwhelmed trying to execute it every corner. Pick a hairpin or a tighter corner and just practice different methods in that one corner.
A lot of interesting replies and a lot of opinions that line up with my own thoughts. The guy I learned from had so much experience and credibility in the industry that whatever he said became “set in stone” to me. He did mention other techniques with shifter karts, rotax, etc, but that my PRD’s throttle did not need to be moderated – I disagreed but listened to him due to not having kart specific experience at the time.
Depriving the engine of oil while off throttle due to the mixing of oil and gas makes sense, however, we don’t drive that way even in stock engine Miatas so it made no sense why I would do that in a kart other than preserving engine life.
If lap time is simply a function of average speed, the obvious conclusion is that if throttle is open even 10% in the middle of a corner it is doing more than if it was 0%. Very complex issue though as others have mentioned.
My engine is freshly rebuilt, so after it is broken in I’d like to drive how he told me to, and then play around with my original style to see how it affects lap times. Getting to throttle before the apex is definitely a must for any fast driver and I too like to rotate my kart on entry a little so that I don’t experience any understeer.
I think when I was new to the sport I was afraid to deviate outside of what really experienced people told me. It will be fun to learn and get to the next level now.
I always do haha. Working on a state exam license but will try and get some YouTube stuff uploaded for you guys when I get out on track again. Probably going to be later this year unfortunately. It’s so fun being an adult (not).
Thanks for the post Michael. I was specifically referring to TaG karting as opposed to shifter karts. I wouldn’t doubt the need to moderate a kart with a gear box at all!
