Looks like the SKUSA affiliated TSRS series is adding Tillotson T4 Senior category this season??? Interesting news considering there is zero presence of any Tillotson racing in the region, zero presence of spec chassis racing in the region, and there was zero promotion of the upcoming addition.
I know my son would consider the 225RS, but not the full T4 package. He is having to pay his own way this year and staying 2 stroke is out of his reach, but racing LO206 again doesn’t excite him too much at the moment. Something with a touch more power may work better for the big guy, but not if he has to buy a spec chassis for it.
Curious how that is going to take off in Texas?
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Story on E Karting News on it that I just saw. Very interested to see how this pans out. Seems like a stretch to develop.
I think this tells the tale pretty well…
Its still early, so counts will come up. Looks to be about 1/2 of typical 1st race entry counts right now. But any way you slice it the new T4 class is DEAD. Tilly has a single solitary kart, 1, UNO. Ouch.
Other classes:
Kid Kart - 5
206 Cadet - 9
206 Jr - 14
206 Sr - 19
MicroSwift - 11
MiniSwift - 11
KAJr - 18
KASr - 16
KA Master - 7
The other issue with adding classes to a series without eliminating a class is that you’re creating less track time per class. The biggest complaint I hear from drivers/parents, whether it be a club race or a regional, is not enough track time. There is a finite amount of daylight. When you add a class, all other classes must give up some of their track time.
If people are paying to travel, they want to maximize the driver’s experience. Multiple practice sessions on Friday. Multiple races of 10+ laps per day with longer finals.
TSRS already has some pretty long race days with all the classes. They have had shifter in the past. So I guess its really an even trade on the race schedule.
I was following it more because of some of the talk on here about Tilly vs 206 and because SKUSA/TSRS was supporting the T4 ticket to Europe path with this class. If you can’t generate solid fields for T4/Tilly racing in a premier SKUSA supported regional series with a ticket to Europe dangled out there, I think it pretty well tells you where Tilly racing is at in the US right now outside of a few isolated pockets.
Tilly should just bring 10-15 karts to the track and make them arrive and drive. They might be able to pick people up that might not run more then one class. Anyways I think my local track will have Arrive and drive, but I don’t know how many they actually have I think they only have a couple.
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https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1AiN5vsXse/
Here is a T4 event that a local track Lorain Ohio Kartplex Lorain Ohio is doing with T4s Arrive & Drive Racing
$3000 to run a full arrive-and-drive weekend in a niche 4-stroke that is supposedly competing with 206 seems… less than ideal.
No shade to McCrone, I know they are running a business. But why wouldn’t I just buy a complete 206 package used for the same money to go race literally anywhere I want in the US and compete in races like the CKNA Grands where they are literally like 80 karts in my class and it includes some of the top drivers in the US?
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I agree I’d love to run this however, I can’t afford to get the kart AND the motors( I field also way more then 1 kart) If I could run them on our existing karts I would just buy the engines then we could do both. Really shoulda gone the other way. Have the T-4 kart and run in lo at the club level on the t-4 kart.
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I guess it would make sense to ask how much it would cost me to do the same with a tent program? Assuming they do those for 4-stoke too.
I don’t think the market has adjusted to Tilly yet, theoretically it could be a stepping stone because the speeds are similar to the Kt100 that has disappeared and faster then a lo206. However it’s marketed as something for the entry level and easy package for someone new, however there is a price tag of $3k to arrive and drive. If you are arriving and driving what exactly are they doing, when it supposed to be something that can be driven out the box? Of course you can buy new $4k-$5500. The used market isn’t big, but there are some out there for cheaper. Perhaps it will be more clear if they are still around in a year or 2, because Lo206 still looks to be thriving.
They have to be completely out of touch tbf. 3K for 4 stroke racing is outrageous
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Arrive and drive program that Margay Ignite offers is $500-$1500 however they have it at there home base more of less. Perhaps this is part of the overhead or perhaps some of that money goes to the purchase. If no one buys the karts the series is going to disappear.
Again Tillotson Have a great package just a different choice in karting why not. 9hp compared to15hp close to KA100 running.. More choices is a great thing for karting it needs it.. THANKS TILLOTSON and Karting tracks who support them !!!
136 total karts registered for a race in 2 week. 2 of them are T4 entries. Going about how I expected when they made the announcement.
Tillotson T4 - 2
Kid Kart - 8
206 Cadet - 10
206 Jr - 15
206 Sr - 23
MicroSwift - 13
MiniSwift - 15
KAJr - 20
KASr - 21
KA Master - 9
How many Tillotson karts do you own? If zero why? You are making the point of why it doesn’t work. Those two entries are either going to share the track with a class or waste everyone’s time running 2 karts. It’s not close to Ka100 has 10 more HP, 15HP vs 25 HP.
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Edit: Just went up and read the posts above. Should have paid more attention.
I dont follow SKUSA that closely. How are these numbers overall? Is this typically what they pull? Its kinda weird to me that 206 is the biggest class at a “SKUSA regional” race.
Also, the Tillotson is on Maxxis Tires whereas the Lo206 or 2-cycle karts are on MG, Vega or Evinco tires. At Music City the Tillotson T4 and Briggs Lo206 run almost the same lap times. There is about a 40% difference in power and 1300rpms difference in engine speed which is a huge factor but the track surface/layout combined with the difference in tires negates the difference in lap times. Lap times are around 36 seconds.
Some customers tested with MG tires and pickup a little over a second but a KA Senior runs around 32.5 second lap times. So even with the same tires, the Tillotson is closer to the LO206 than it is the KA100.
We’re playing with modified Tillotson that make 15-20 more power and torque but we’re not sure we can even split the difference unless we’re turning about 1000rpms more than the 7500rpms rev limited coils.
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Personally I like the Tilly. It’s a nifty engine and a nice alternative. It’s more like a wf I think, which makes it subtly different. I have y had the opportunity yet to drive one but I hope to someday.
I can see the Tilly as a spec class like the margay ignite. Some clubs might choose to go that route.
But for the broader karting world in the USA, at least, it seems to me that lo206 is already well established, growing, and a terrific low-cost racing solution.
The Tilly doesn’t bring the us market anything useful, imho, if it is considered a competitor to the LO. We are finally getting to a point where lo206 is our national 4-stroke race engine, at least for sprint karts.
So we aren’t pushing back because we are anti-tilly. We just want to see parity, grids, and cost efficiency. The Tilly is indeed sweet, but we don’t really need it, here in the USA.
TSRS is a SKUSA affiliated series and requires SKUSA license for participation in 2 stroke classes. SKUSA owns IKF since 2018. So there is a connection for both 2 stroke and 4 stroke in a SKUSA affiliated regional series. Series winners get free entries to SuperNats in 2 stroke and IKF Grands in 4 stroke.
As far as entry counts, 206 and KA Sr are the premier class and typically have 35 plus entries. Have seen as many as 58. Varies between the two classes as to which has most, usually pretty close to even. Still 2 weeks out, so there will be some more late entries. If they come in under 40 in those classes for the first event, I would say its off to a slow start this year.
Regardless, the entries pretty clearly highlight that our region is not on board with an alternative to 206 or an “in-between” 206 and 2 stroke option. Not saying Tilly is inherently bad, just that our market doesn’t seem ready to embrace another 4 stroke class.
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