I’ll try to figure out where this is. In main, yes?
Rentals are the NASCAR of the karting world.
Rubbin’ is racing! Until it’s too much 
.
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In the main video, all passes combined it seems ok
I swear my races are more chaotic than KF3 races were
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Rentals are a different set of rules. It’s basically sim racing with even less consequences at times 
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Oh I wouldn’t go that far.
I haven’t jumped the clubhouse irl, yet.
@KartingIsLife which brings up a good point…
This is another “moral gut check” post where I bring nonsense to the table and then ask for opinions. Like these: Am I a Jerk? MIA (Moral Incident Analysis) I punt a guy
I make it real by using my own poor judgment and misbehavior as the source of inspiration.
It’s a deliberate attempt to get “discussion” around actual racing that’s not about technique etc.
The question I have is, is it annoying? I’m not trying to be narcissistic, I’m just trying to get people to discuss stuff that’s ambiguous and open to interpretation. I try to show actual misbehavior that had some consequence to the race, not very minor stuff.
Je T’aime (avec la chaleur d’une million KZ pipes). 
I am free! Send it!
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Ooof. I’m gonna go cry in my matching k1 outfit and Bell challenger helmet.
The truth hurts.
Tanguys races seem to have a pretty good standard of driving and more homogenous fields skill wise,
I have yet to even have a fleet that’s within 1.5 much less drivers
Can I come race in Yurup
Do you have better turns than this?
Sorry, I’m not trying to be a dick, and I’m not saying rental racers as a whole are ‘bad’ or ‘less than’ drivers. I’m just pointing out that the environment (track layout, variable skill level, and especially the karts) create a consequence profile that flavors the driving skill with a deep layer of hyper aggressive that would likely not be acceptable in other types of kart racing.
So, back to the 5:38 pass at the double-apex left-hander… in the context of the racing, I kind of understand how you can justify this… I could be swayed. However, I want to make clear what I didn’t like about it by first pointing out what I consider good passes… positioning your kart in an advantageous position, at a reasonable time/location in the turn.
3:37 shows two good examples of what I would consider good ethical passes.
You get inside position with significant overlap 3/4 kart (so they had to know you were there) early in the turn (by the turn-in point). So in my eyes, you earned that piece of track (by getting a good run from the previous corner) and you executed the pass by the first apex with superior position and entry speed. BRAVO
At the same time, something similar was happening with the three karts in front of you; Mr. Gray Shirt got inside position with good overlap at turn-in for the first apex, so Mr. Yellow shirt had to acquiesce, and he had to accept that being passed at that spot meant he would be wide for the second apex. The guy behind (Mr. Blue shirt) took advantage with a move that one could argue was a bit late (he did not achieve significant overlap until maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the way to the apex). However, due to the compromised position of yellow shirt (a full kart-width wide of the line, and realistically no chance of getting the kart down to the apex) there was room for Mr. Blue shirt to execute a clean (no contact) pass. So I look at this as Mr. Blue didn’t really earn the piece of track at the apex by getting overlap at a reasonable spot in the turn, but he was gifted that track by the previous pas compromising Yellow shirt’s track position. To me, this is just racing Mr. Blue did not ‘dive’ for the apex early, or carry more speed than he normally would, and Mr. Yellow recognized his situation and didn’t turn down to bang into Mr. Blue.
The things I don’t care for in the 5:38 pass are:
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I first have to ask myself if he was a little wide at turn in because he got some help from behind (when trying to slow down for the corner, or was driving a different line trying to get a good round run at the 2nd apex, or did he just made a mistake.
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Certainly he was not in as compromised a position as Mr. Yellow from the example above; he was maybe 1/2 kart wide compared to your (and the other drivers), ‘usual’ line through that turn. Anyway, regardless of his exact lateral position he was for sure going to be able to get the kart all the way down to the aped.
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At the point when the guy in front of you is turning into the 2nd apex, you have about 0 overlap (your front bumper is about even with his rear), so In my mind, for that location in the turn, you have earned no right to any inside track position.
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It appears you were able to establish some overlap during the time between him turning-in and him arriving at the apex. However, it looks like you did this through a combination of getting on the gas early (bravo), and driving straight to the second apex (much less bravo for me).
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The maximum amount of overlap you got before the inevitable contact at the apex was your front wheel about even with his rear wheel (based on stepping through the video).
In my mind I feel like you could see he was driving to the apex, you made a late, straight dive for the apex (presumably knowing contact was inevitable), bumped the guy out of the way, and just stole the place with a move that seems like a bit of an over aggressive dive-bomb.
That said, we can 100% agree to disagree on this. If you consider that move fair in the context of rental racing, and would not complain if you were on the receiving end, then that’s all cool. I’m coming from a FF background where people end up on their head from moves like that, so my perspective is a bit different.
I figured you might have that reaction but I thought it funny (and accurate).
Ooops wrong driver… starting over
Ok I get your point. You want to see overlap such that the other fella knows he’s cooked or at least in big trouble. Your problem with my passes is that they are kinda sendy. I’m annoying in that I’m taking space that you don’t think I’ve earned and that’s good feedback. I understand what you mean from the examples above you wrote. All of it makes sense.
I dunno. I totally agree that he had no line of sight on me. I also agree that I was naughty going under, but not taking that opening seems like a mistake. Backing off to let him come back down to apex would make things spicy from behind. But, it could create new opportunities.
However, this ain’t a dive bomb. It’s a “don’t mind if I do”. I did not touch him. He came down on to me. (since he was unaware, and rather undramatically). I then made sure he had enough room for the chicane and we went two wide through.
I did the same against 47 at 7:29. Except here, he knows I’m there since he’s been head on swivel the whole time. Still sends it wide.
I’d do it again, I think.
However, I have much to digest in terms of what next race looks like. I suspect I shall listen to you guys and attempt to remove tippy taps and unhinged stuff.
I guess the question is one of ethics. This is gonna be tough because I’d like to think I’m ethical and empathetic. Racing complicates matters.
Didn’t he lose the right to hold that line? He fell off. Man this gets hard to square. At some point you have to make a cutoff in terms of behaviors.
Why? In my opinion it’s finders keepers for the guy in front until you do the work to fairly place yourself into a position to wrestle advantageous track position away from him… and then complete the pass.
Consider what @tjkoyen said…
For the two ‘good’ pass examples I mentioned at 3:37, in both of those cases the leading driver was given the choice to lift because the passing kart got sufficient overlap, at a reasonable location in the turn, which meant that the leading driver was (or should have been) aware they were under attack.
In the 5:38 pass that I’m not too keen on, I feel that, regardless of him being a little wide at turn-in, the attack on him was blind. He was not so far wide that he should have reasonably expected someone to magically appear at the apex of that turn (the apex he was clearly, obviously, and inevitably driving towards). You were fully behind his kart at turn-in, you dove for a very small gap that was never going to be there when you got there, and you didn’t even get fully next to him by the time of impact (RF on LR) at the apex. For these reasons I feel like this driver was never given the option to lift (nor should he have had to because he was ahead). It just looked like an mugging from behind, cleverly disguised as an overtake. 
If you had ever gotten to a position (overlap) where he would reasonably know you were there (or if he had been so wide that he should expect someone would fill the full kart width+ hole he left, like with Mr Yellow shirt at 3:37), then I would consider it a fair pass.
Maybe try to think of it this way…
We all know you would have done the same thing to @E13, because he’s out to get you 
, but riddle me this; last lap, and that’s your son Nick leading the race in front of you. You have superior mid-corner speed, so you turn left to go straight to the apex. But milliseconds later you realized that based on both of your speeds, locations, and trajectories you are going to collide at the apex. Would you carry on, bang your RF into his LR, and escort him out of your way, or would you recognize/accept the compromised position you have put yourself in, lift, and try to attack him at another turn?
Remember, there is a counterpoint to TJ’s statement above… when you miscalculate a pass attempt, YOU are the one who gets to lift.
Anyway, that’s the way I see all of this… doesn’t mean I’m right.
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This is quality stuff right here.
No fair invoking family, especially children. Of course I’m gonna give him the corner. He’s mah boy. Actually, I’m gonna push him forwards if I get the opportunity.
Ok I surrender in the face of relentless reasonableness.
I’m going back to my sim cave to gnaw on raw meat and prepare for my next race where I totally will not punt anyone. I think I will try to be less bumpy and to try to overlap a bit before I go. If this fails miserably I shall report back.
-thank you so very much.
Says the guys with engine parity…
OK I will shut up now. Ignore this and go about your business. I’m just being a Frad.
Hey, not to be lost in all the back & forth, chiding, and gnashing of teeth is the fact you ran a very good race and made a lot of good, fair, aggressive, and well planned (or when appropriate, well reacted to) passes. 
Hey thanks. I was pretty pleased overall. It was good fun and quite eventful!
My wife has been racing in the Pat’s Acres Super Series League this summer in the Rookie class. It is her first time racing positionally. She has about a year of experience driving at Pats and an indoor track (SyKart) for hot laps.
Here is an onboard from her last race! She got bumped and tossed around quite a bit in all three races this night. Unfortunate but I am proud of her getting after it and holding her own as the only women in the league! She is a quick driver (qualified P1 of the rookies) but has a lot of confidence and race craft to develop racing for positions. She is having a lot of fun and definitely has the competitive spirit!!!
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I think she has a competitive future 
. She is assertive and likely is gonna improve a bunch quick! She’s doing well with the bumpy bumpy and seems down to throw down. So, what’s your best guess as to how long before she smokes you on track?
Hey Mike,
You should ask about this bit. Pretty sure coasting isn’t a viable solution for low grip, at least not at the level you aspire to.
Ask an experienced 2-stroke guy. I don’t know how different it would be with softer tires but I’d be thinking about brake pressure initial application and trail.