Stumbled across this today while looking for 3/8 mile ovals for Rfactor 2. Have not read it yet.
Hmm, so his point is that since it’s physical it requires motion sim? I felt that my setup in kk was miles better from a feel and realism standpoint than iBraking. But yeah I had a rig with 6 shaker setup that would occasionally fool my brain into feeling actual kart motions like back end shifting etc.
But that also applies to stuff like iracing. It also was important there, but overall something like iracing was very numb. Might be to do with weight as in general car sims felt very wooden to me outside of specific cars which tended to be open wheel, downforce cars.
Motorsport Games CEO said karting isn’t ‘aspirational’ in the wider market. That pretty much sums it up. Not worth investment beyond what has happened. Kart Kraft was the result of passion over many years, but going forward it’s economically not wise.
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I guess what he means is the stuff that folks see in tv and could daydream about? Like being a big time nascar guy as opposed to a kart pro having to hustle on the side? If gonna make sim, might as well go big as a daydream factory?
I could see that to make money you need to do the cup cars like acc or the nascar cars. I do think that kk was about as close to it as anyone has gotten, experientially. We can argue about the accuracy of the physics etc but as an experience, it was close to nailing it. Maybe that’s just me, vr and too much weed.
What’s funny is that to me I dream of grip and the sound/smell of it all, the feels, not the vehicle.
But then again I’m not aspiring, I do racing and don’t need the daydream of what if. Iracing gets close to this sometimes when on a small oval, alone. It can be beautiful and powerfully reminiscent of being there.
I could say many many words on Motorsport Games and their ability to ruin any title they could manage to get their hands on, but I fear it would violate community guidelines.
But basically you have to think of the casual player. Go ask anyone on the streets to describe karting. They will likely describe those little indoor circuits that go 15 mph. Ask a 13 year old if they’d rather drive a ferrari or a go kart. It doesn’t draw attention. and for the hardcore sim racers, the seat feel is never going to be captured in a kart sim without an accurate motion rig.
I feel like one day it could get there. As of now, the market, and the developers that could make it happen, don’t see eye to eye.
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That last part is one of the biggest things. Not a lot of people have partaken in actual karting. The smell, the atmosphere, the noise. It’s literally a drug. So we’re going to try and replicate that at home, as well as for practice. But most people just have never experienced and don’t care to ever experience it. As well as the $$ barrier of entry.
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Makes sense to me, I’d wager that a lot of kart racers are kart racers because full size race cars are cost or knowledge/ time prohibitive. In a sim situation, its all the same, so why not drive the sexier vehicle?
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Something like iRacing is subscription based anyways. They got your money regardless of what series or cars you run. Why not make a kart model and sell it to a large majority of the platform for $10 a pop. As well as a handful of tracks at $15 each.
I’ve tried quite a few of the kart sims and none of them just work like iRacing does. Wheel setup issues, FFB, motion, triple monitor support, etc.
I’m quite surprised they haven’t done it yet.
I was kind of hoping iracing would buy the ip of KK.
They tried to have a kart model, but it didn’t work out. Hard to get right. Would be expensive for little return. basically would require a ground up physics engine build.
Everyone says that, but a kart has so much less kinematics going on versus and “normal” car design.
The chassis is just a spring and damper in one. There will be a constant for the latitudinal and longitudinal spring and damper rates. All can be measured.
Yes the body plays a part in physics, but if you mostly assumes it’s a fixed body it’s a good starting point and gets you what 80-90% of the way there.
Then all you need is a tire model. Which can also be done.
I don’t think someone like iRacing would have to redo their physics engine. IRacing is pumping money into that Exocross game I keep getting constant ads for. You can’t tell me that will out perform adding something like a kart and various tracks to the service. Anyways my two cents.
I may or may not be messing around in Unreal engine over the past couples months during my summer break from racing.
Interesting!! 20 symbols with no meaning
So basically we just need to spam and beg iRacing for a kart model, or wait until clayton single-handedly launches a kart game 
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I think your underestimate the complexity involved in simulating chassis and tyre flex to a degree that is satisfactory. I knew Zack from the very beginnings of Kartsim and he went through a ton of iterations to get to a point where KartKraft was any where near releasable. I think this took over a decade. Car’s complexity, conversely, allow physics modelers to hide and manipulate to make them feel right, but with karts you really can’t hide.
The other thing is the human body plays a huge role in the dynamics of a kart, unlike a car. So when trying to compare to reality there’s an extra layer of “hmmm this don’t feel right” factor, bikes would be the next step beyond.
I do every time there is a survey and get all my buddies on iRacing to as well.
Hard yes, impossible and as tough as everyone makes it out to be no. I’ve done kinematic, sim, and FEA on much harder things.
I’ve built rigs for torsional testing big stuff. A kart would be no sweat.
So many passion projects have come close. A big company like iRacing should be able to do it. That’s all I’m saying.
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Well, I look forward to testing your build 
May or may not happen. I’ve got a billion things going on so most likely not.
But I have 3D scanned my new kart I’m putting together and built a pretty accurate version of the frame.
There are some cool physics engines and stuff built into software like Unreal and starting points from others. Internet is a wonderful place with unlimited knowledge.
Honestly think the hardest and most expensive part is scanning the tracks. I know it was a lot of work for our guys. Both the scanning and cleaning up the point clouds was a serious lift. Then adding the details of signage, walls, curbs was a big lift.
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There is always someone who knows someone. So if anybody knows how to get ahold of whoever owns the IP for Kartkraft I don’t see why we can’t crowdsource funding to take it over. Get it back into the hands of the original owner?
Kartpulse’s own kart sim would be sick.
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Another issue is that karts race on specific tracks, so if you were to add it, you’d have to scan a bunch of new tracks and I’m sure that’s costly too.
I actually want to buy Exocross. I think you’re underestimating how much money there is available for arcade style racers, especially compared to the profit potential of adding an already very niche form of motorsport like karting. I think it looks really fun. And I’m sure the investment in developing that was far less than the effort it would be to build and model a kart, scan tracks, and get it all 90% realistic.
I’m not a programmer or game designer, but I imagine the guys who worked on KartKraft had a strong grasp on physics and modeling AND karting and as Alan said, it still took them YEARS to build a halfway decent sim. And then there was a super long beta phase and testing phase and constant tweaking and refining the physics and tire model. So I doubt it is just a matter of us crowdfunding the IP purchase and then someone tinkering with the game to make it better or redesign it.