175SSE vs Modena vs TM KZ10c for “open” racing

I have two shifters, one is a TM R1 and the other one is Super Shifter 175cc
I prefer the 175cc, reliable, low maintenance compared to the R1, and the 175cc comes with electric start here in Europe, all of them are electric start in Europe, you press that button and off you go, easy! And very reliable, I truly love the Super Shifter, nothing wrong with the R1 but much higher maintenance, and it’s easier to seize.

Wish our SSEs had electric start…

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I’m sure you can have it electric start, now whether that is allowed over there, I don’t know, but it sure is convenient.

The TaG motor was the original SSE engine, then SKUSA spec’ed its changes & removed the starter, arguing simplicity. I got on the TaG shifter bandwagon route with the TM TaG shifters & never looked back. I suppose some might view the idea of a plug-in (literally) wire harness that connects starter, ignition, & battery to be a complicated thing. Then again, the single speed TaG motors have been going on for years, & they even rely on it for ignition, unlike the TaG shifters, which only use it for the starter, & the stator also recharges the battery.

IMO, the “complexity” argument is wanting. The TM KZ TaG engines - the original KZ TaG - are raced at the SIMA facility up in Sumas, WA every season, & I’ve never seen nor heard of a reliability issue with them. Ever.

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I’d argue that having a starter makes it simpler - especially when you are the driver and crew. Plus killing the engine due to spins, etc. are made safer as you can get going again instead of being a sitting duck on the track.

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I see a lot of “sitting ducks” at my local track every weekend, my Super Shifter with electric start is just so awesome, tag…

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Having watched countless people sat in the middle of a circuit waiting for their engine to start as opposed to those of a DD past where you jump out and move the kart out of danger immediately, I will say the idea TaGs are ‘safer’ is somewhat debatable :slight_smile:

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That’s what’s great about an electric start shifter. You have both options. Push a button, or push the kart.

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Having spun sideways in the rain, stalled it, and then been hit hard broadside I don’t agree. In the six or so seconds between the spin with people going around me, there was no time to hop out and push, nor was it safe to do so. Besides, immediately is more like 10 seconds. That is how an on-board starter can really help. Not in every situation, but for times like that.

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Here are my personal experiences about iame 175 supersifter reliability

I used 181 liters of fuel during the season 2020 . Didnt change the piston once. Today had my first test day 2021 - again with the same piston. Have run the motor hard all the time like I rented it. Only thing I have made sure is drive around slowly until engine is up to temp before going nuts. Have done multiple tuning mistakes with the low / high screws - have had egt temps at over 700´C plenty of times. Have used motul 2 stroke oil at 4.5% mix ratio. Have run out of water once as top hose came loose and only noticed it after my ass got wet - god knows how hot the engine got. Refilled and continued driving

Have gone through few reed petals - they start to chip from the corners. Some petals lasted only a day or so - latest petals have been fine for a long time

Tillotson carburetor is easy to adjust (they say… )but the throttle saft eats away the aluminum housing over time and it starts to affect tuning - the phone app recommendations dont work any more

Have had zero gearbox issues

Starter doesnt engage every time I hit it - have to move the kart a bit on gear to get it to hook. Starter is a wonderful thing to have if you spin or run off track

Thats pretty much about it

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I thought the Euro SSE had a float carb. Is it now using the SKUSA spec diaphragm unit?

The European Super Shifter comes with the Tillotson carburetor, I don’t exactly know when they got rid of the Dellorto carburetor but my Super Shifter, that I bought in January 2020, came with the Tillotson.

And here I am trying not to go above 650ºC-660ºC EGT.
You’ve either been very lucky, or the reliability of the Super Shifter is insanely good, I’ve just started driving mine so I’ll find out soon.
A good friend of mine has had a Super Shifter for about 4 years, he replaces de piston and conrod every 22-23 hours, which is really good!

Well I aim to keep below 660-670`C but mistakes happen :sweat_smile:

Took the piston out over the weekend to see the condition and sure enough it had melted from the edges. Bore hasnt got any seizure marks to my surprise. The bore is within 0.01mm in roundness. It hasnt gone oval from overheating. I was expecting it to be distorted from running without coolant

The squish was set by previous owner to 1.3mm which is quite a lot to my liking and most likely part of the reason why piston has melted from the edges. I have all the pistons the previous owner had used and they show the same issue but less severe

I´ll set the squish a bit tighter, factory manual says 1.15mm. I´ll try a bit less and see what the motor likes. I dont race in any championship etc - just driving by myself against the clock so modding is all good

So - not a super sensitive motor in my opinion, takes a real punishment and just keeps on running

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I’m looking at my manual and it says “squish 1.15” at least for the European version.

Quick question, do you remember the settings of your carburetor? High and Low?
I’m trying to figure out the high and low on my carburetor in order to not go above 660ºC
Thanks in advance

I dont have a printed manual but looked from Iame website what the squish should be :man_shrugging: I plan to make it tighter - to see what is the minimum clearance before touching and to see when or does the melting go away.

Well Im still learning how to tune the Tillotson but here are some things I have experienced

The Tillotson has extra fuel feed via the throttle shaft. It becomes active as throttle is opened.

I bought the kart used - the motor had seen 2 or 3 seasons of racing. Or maybe more. Who knows. Wear became more and more obvious as fuel mist vented outside, by the shaft, wetting right side of engine, ignition coil etc. The shaft fit loosely to the worn out shaft bore. The mixture screw settings were nowhere near app recommendations.

On this HB15 A model the throttle cable + fixture cause side load to the shaft near full throttle - causing more wear. This pressure is evident as the cable is slowly cutting a groove - making more straighter path for itself

So bought a new tillotson late last season. No more wet engine side, app recommendations made sense - the engine ran beautifully. I was happy I could finally just drive rather than going nuts with the mixture screws

I cant really say recommendations other than use the app if you have a fresh(ish) carburetor. I use it at least as a base tune. If you really want to play it safe ad a quarter or half more what the app says and then come down until motor becomes responsive and starts making some power - Check temperature and go leaner until you are in the target

To make supershifter run happy - before going to the track I try to remember to check reed petals, make sure air filter is dry, pull spark plug cap off and check there`s no carbon deposits on plug porcelain. The cap moves around a bit via vibration or my elbow hitting it and arcs now and then inside the cap. This eats away metal from the plug, destroys the rubber and makes the connection poor. Zip tie might help keep the cap in place. Carb gaskets wear too - The pump capacity drops or stops working if the gaskets have been on for too long. Couple fresh sets per season should be enough

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Thanks for all the tips, but quick question… Are we talking about the same engine??? Super Shifter 175cc??? My engine, the IAME Super Shifter 175cc, came with the HB-15A Tillotson carburetor, you wrote that your carburetor is the HB-10A :thinking: and if I’m not mistaken, the Tillotson HB-10A is the carburetor that comes with the X30 Super 175cc, which is not the Super Shifter, it’s an automatic engine, and the squish on this engine, according to the IAME manual, is 0.95

So based on what you have mentioned, HB-10A, squish 0.9-0.95 I have a feeling that we are talking about two different engines :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Good observation - edited my post to 15A. We are talking about the same engine - I took the squish from wrong engine manual :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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Great! :+1: (did I just save you from making the squish too tight and ending up with detonation? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:)

Do you remember the settings of your HB-15A, high and low? In order to end up with 660ºC-670ºC EGT? :thinking:

You wrote “app recommendations made sense” “use the app if you have a fresh carburetor” What App are you using??? :thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking:

Well not quite as I machined the head to 0.8 squish :smile:The head is machined from the factory to be a bit open towards the plug. For now I kept the angle the same. I will check what happens next time Im out on the track. This is all just to experiment. I presume there will be a detonation prone zone as I go tighter and then quits detonating as the gap gets close to zero. I will machine the squish to match the piston angle the closer I get. There probably isnt more power to be had unless timing could be advanced too.

Peter you have certainly made me be more accurate about different engine/carb models :+1: :laughing:
Thank you for being on point :+1:That being said I have used wrong app… :smile: Its for super 175 :laughing: For what it is worth it has worked for me but dont melt your engine doing the same I do as it is for wrong carb (10A) I have used it as a base and tweaked on - its probably wrong in everyway but by sheer luck it has been useful

With my new tillotson the recommendations for adjustments were written inside the box. Dont know from the factory or by the dealer here in Finland. They didnt work for me - motor ran very rich. Maybe they work for you?

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