Any questions about my ownership of the BSR2.0 Blue Shock Race fully electric powertrain?

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Does anyone have any questions about my experience in ownership regarding the BSR Blue Shock Race 2.0 powertrain? I’m trying to get everyone comfortable so I have more company to race with😁

A little background:
In early 2017 I wanted a toy😅 I had decided I wanted some kind of kart, but always disliked the idea of neighbors calling the cops so a 125cc shifter was out. I decided I wanted something electric. After seeing Rattlesnake Electric Sports karts in California, and already having electric everything (Hustler Zeon, Razor pocket rocket, ryobi, Worx), this was going to happen.

I purchased a CRG chassis on Craigslist missing nearly everything, and in my search for used parts, found what I was actually looking for… a 2008 CRG Road Rebel roller that had been converted to electric with an Agni 95R, Alltrax 7245 controller and no batteries. I sourced a harness, some 5s5ah Turnigy lipos and I was flying.

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The local SCCA/solo/autoX group said I could bring it out; I took FTD at my first event with a setup that topped out at 54mph to end their season. Everyone was shocked, except me😅 That winter, jacking around, I got that Agni 95R to start throwing black stuff out of the vents and smelling funny so it gave me an excuse to upgrade😅.

Its January 2018; Motenergy1507, Sevcon Gen4Size6 and (60)Turnigy 5s5ah lipos (Don’t bother roasting my battery setup. I’m much smarter now and have roasted myself more than you could everrrrrr).

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I took FTD at every event (expept 1, but don’t get me started lol) I purchased the motor, controller, and everything except the batteries as a kit through an online vendor, EMF power. The kart was fast, but never fully sorted. The software was not written directly for the kart, so it had random faults about 30% of the time. A change in driving style got this down to <10%, but not desired. To top things off, after a season of road racing Legends, the National SCCA contacted me to say “don’t bring that kart to another event.” Ouch.

The entire time I had been petitioning to the SCCA for electric kart allowance. I had found Solo courses were the best 1 lap time attack, and all the tight corners suited the electric that much better. REGARDLESS OF YOUR POSITION ON ELECTRIC PROPULSION, ITS HERE TO STAY. There will still be a place for petrol/diesel, but electric as well. So, I kept pushing.

While Covid put everything on hold, I kept sticking my nose in with the SCCA, and with the help of my local Wichita SCCA region, we had the SCCA National Office’s attention. After many months of safety discussions and emails, in April of 2022 I was given the approval start running a “production electric powertrain”. The word “production” is important here, because that’s the real safety concern: homemade batteries. This is a current pilot project, as this is still THE only electric kart allowed until the SCCA Solo Safety Board is comfortable moving forward with proposed safety regulations.

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I purchased a 2020 CRG KT4 roller from Ron White (super nice guy btw) in a sale facilitated by Rich Hilleman (Rattlesnake Electric Sports, another super nice guy) and had it ready to go when my BSR2.0 powertrain arrived. Rich was petitioning to the SCCA 10 years ago about these and I just picked up the baton.

It’s a super easy job to mount everything. I had to make some modifications to my left side plastics, as well as moving the seat position left, but nothing outside of very basic mechanical skills. I did fabricate and paint my chain guard as well.

When I realized we have sprint tracks within 3.5 hours of my house, and I now have a fully sorted kart that will run ~18 minutes, I wanted the wheel to wheel action like I loved about Legneds racing again. As was similar with the SCCA, the insurance thing is keeping tracks from allowing me on course with petrol karts at the same time. These can run with gas karts, but if there are enough electrics, they race by themselves. I can now say these are faster than KA100 on road course (but I can’t go 30 minutes). I’m about sure the current BSR2.2 25KW+ is fastest of anything on a small sprint course, but ~12 minute run time.

I have a BSR2.0 25KW, but can upgrade software to BSR2.2 and/or 25KW+ with a software upgrade via shipped laptop service. Knowing what I know about the Gen4Size6, in the future you can have a toggle switch between 25kw(race) and 25kw+(quali) modes. I’ve asked, BSR currently does not offer.

TLDR I’m transparently trying to convince you to race electric😃 Even if it’s not racing with me or in my area, just moving the acceptance in that direction helps in one way or another.

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Absolutely! What’s the total weight including batteries? Is 18 mins autonomy measure at full on power or is it like 10 min and then power starts tapering off from there? Just trying to understand the true “raceable” time on one charge, all out. What’s the solution for a full day on track for the average driver? Owning multiple battery packs, charge them in advance, bring them all on track and swap them out between sessions as they run out?

Overall I think nobody is really rejecting the idea, as long as it’s fast, competitive and there is a solution to the charging part at a decent cost, it can be viable. The other part of the formula I’d love to hear your opinion on, is that right now there are tons of motor, controller, battery and software combinations. You talked about it yourself, which leads to prototypes of all kinds with radically different performance levels, so how do you think it can be regulated in a category that is workable?

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If we’re talking about electric kart adoption in general, the challenges for EV karts are similar to cars, but there are much fewer (Dollar) incentives to solve them. The biggest challenge is charging infra (I don’t think diesel generators are going to be a long term play?).

On the BSR specifically. What’s the total cost? Do we have a sense of how many charge cycles would be reasonable to expect from a battery pack.

Parity wise, I think something like a “spec” motor controller might be a good start. I’d also like to see any “spec” that emerges to move away from this concept of electric karts having to be faster than everything to have a reason to exist. The result is very fast yet very heavy karts. A balance needs to be struck between performance, run time and vehicle weight. The market has spoken quite clearly that speed/performance is not as big of a consideration as those of us already in the sport might think.

I love the technology of electric karts, and I think karting is an excellent place to accelerate innovation in EV as well as autonomous vehicles. From an adoption standpoint for competition karting I’m bearish to declare that it’s here to stay or anything near it in a country where leaded gas is still prevalent in the sport.

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Total kart weight: 268 lbs with battery. I only remove/install the battery on the ground which is quick, and im only moving a 200lb kart. This way when im not transporting in my toy hauler, everything gets easily in and out of a truck bed.

From what I can tell, if you stay with their recommended 14/24 sprocket, the full race time is about 18 minutes. The battery meter only shows % and V. Getting close to 18 minutes, % will eventually get to 0 under load, which rests close to 20%.

30 minutes road racing is out of the question. I installed a 220v outlet in my trailer, and take a generator to the track, so i can do an entire sprint day on 2 charges, one of them at the track. Practice, quali, and 1st heat, then charge during the longer heats and lunch for a full battery in the final. Charging does take over an hour if youre fully dead, but you also have the option of topping up between sessions. The easist solution here is to have an extra battery if you cant recharge on site (this is typical, most small tracks dont have AC power for sale).

You would not believe the rejection Ive had… There is not a track close that will allow gas and electric on course at the same time if we have similar lap times. I was finally allowed on a 1.8mile road course, which does not suit this kart well.

Batteries are the limiting factor. This motor is rated higher and ran faster in my lipo kart, because I HAD WAY TOO MANY BATTERIES! The FIA eKart rules specify how much battery weight you can have by cell chemistry. Limiting battery weight is like limiting ICE displacement which will keep them somewhat close. I think that we will see changes in motor efficiency and ability to deliver power, but that will be similar to all the different ICE engines available.

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Charging does make an additional challenge. Larger tracks or tracks with RV camping connections will have power. I already have the generator for running my trailer (ac, fridge, microwave, etc) so no sweat. Again, 2 batteries totally solves this problem.

Total cost: In early 2022, the Euro$ exchange rate was worse. My quoted 9899 Euro was roughly $10,700 to Port of Houston. If shipping terms are listed as CIF, you will have more fees for customs and further delivery.

Charge cycles Im yet to have a clear idea, and cycle count depends on diacharge/charge%. Right now, BSR advertises that a battery will lose 20% capacity in 3 years of very hard track use. They say they will then take your battery, give a 20% discount on new battery, a repurpose your old cells into something lower power.

A spec motor makes sense like a spec engine… next thing you know, every brand made their own “spec”. One thing I really like about the BSR setup is that many brands, including Zero motorcycles, use this motor, and it has room to get faster. They dont have to be faster than gas, but equally as fun, which the torque more than handles. My only desire to race with gas karts now is the lack of electrics in my area. These karts will be heavier than an equally powered gas kart for a while, but still a wild blast to drive.

Electric everything is here to stay. Im not saying petrol will go away, but electric will only grow, just like the car market. For me? The amount of race time I get compared to work time is awesome.

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I could believe it, at least if it’s on the track at the same time as gas powered karts. The difference in weight is concerning. It’s not too bad compared to a shifter, but a collision with a full sized junior kart could be nasty.

Another thing that I don’t think tracks have an understanding of how to manage fires that may occur with electric karts.

The road course was fun to watch, what track was that?

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I should be on the sprint track with shifters as the weight is close and lap times similar, but am instead put in places where there is little interaction. And I mean no disrespect to the tracks that have allowed that, as others have said absolutely no track allowance at all.

From what I understand about this battery chemistry, there will be multiple safetey warnings exhibited long before a fire. For instance, gas discharging from a battery is a good time to stop hammering on it. This, however, is an area where im also unclear… My understanding is to stop doing whatever Im doing if anything seems not right (ie gassing, fire), get to a safe area and observe. If its on fire, my general understanding was the battery would burn until it stopped, but I cant find anyone with experience like this.

That road course was Hallett Motor Racing Circuit in Jennings, OK. Its a very technical track with a great racing community😁

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This is awesome. I just got a kart and am starting with LO206 with the plan to do an electric power plant next summer.

I was thinking 7.5kW motor and enough battery for 20 minutes. This way, it would be similar to LO206 in max speed but would need torque limiting for launch. It should be lower lap times because of the higher acceleration. There is much thinking to do about the acceleration curve.

For batteries, I wanted to use LiFePO4 because of safety concerns.

I need to do more work on the battery voltage. From a safety point of view, 48V is better but from a harnessing point of view higher voltage is better.

Can you share your learnings on safety? Harnessing? Connectors? Battery enclosure?

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Honestly? Everything BSR put together is better in every aspect than what I built. I genuinely learned a better way to package this entire setup from their design. I struggle to improve on their system. Copy them

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Without the benefit of solid state battery tech, the risks associated thermal runaway instability & the significantly higher weight of current LiPO batteries will relegate electrically propelled karts to being relative background noise in the sport.

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Did you have a question? Thank you for your input

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Sure:
How much run time does the 5Ah battery have?
How long does the particular 5 Ah charging cycle take to charge, & what is its life time (charging cycles)?
What does the total kart package weigh?

I have heard that for containing a Li ion fire, powdered graphite, copper powder, or sodium carbonate are supposed to be more effective; class B extinguishers are also supposed to be the practical go-to; use Class D for Li metal fires. Water is rather ineffective at actually dousing it, as it’s a thermochemical reaction. In fact, water reacts with Li metal. If anything, water would be best for containing the surrounding area.

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If youre talking about my home-built setup, I never fully tested its run time, or fully changed/discharged the packs. Regen was never activated during racing and the packs are still being used in other toys/projects. If I remember correctly, the weight was very similar.

Thank you for the additional info about the fire extinguishers.

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Hi Chad,

Thanks for openly sharing your experience with BSR. That is quite cool!

I am also quite keen on electric. I have been racing LO206 in Canada for about two years now and it’s been super fun.

The BSR setup is quite pricy… For a 25kW+ setup and an extra battery I am at almost 20K CAD (and no it’s not Monopoly money ;). Being a power electronics engineer myself, I am comfortable to invest a bit of time in my own setup to make this more affordable. It remains a side project, a kind of experiment to be ahead of the curve when all the electric detractors switch over :wink:

Some Questions :slight_smile:

  1. You are mentioning above that you had some “programming” issues with your Sevcon Gen4Size6. Can you elaborate? What kind of issues did you have? I want to make sure I do not get in a situation where I pay 2K for a controller that faults out and does not give me ways to understand and fix the issue. I also saw that you need to purchase quite a pricy programmer + software license to be able to configure it and play with the settings. Did you have this on hand?

  2. The BSR motor looks very close to a ME1507… Is it not?

  3. You mention the BSR packaging is nice and hard to beat… There are some things I also find neat:

  • Swap-in swap-out setup is very desired
  • Motor + controller block is clever
  • Battery + BMS block is good
    Any other things you have noticed that is particularly nice and that I should consider for my setup?

Again thanks for sharing your experience. It’s too bad we do not live in the same area, I would gladly come and e-race with you :slight_smile:

FG.

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Hello FG,

Yes, the BSR setup is pricey! But with the amount of time and disappointment in trying to get the other setup correct, missed starts/runs due to faults etc, it has been worth every penny.

  1. Yes, I still have Sevcon DVT loaded on a laptop with the communication cable. I actually started the 1507 build purchased as a “package” with “engineering included.” Ive worked directly with an ex Sevcon engineer, as well as another programmer that sold the kit. The main issue is that with no dyno, laboratory setup or loggable data for later viewing(Sevcon will only log in laptop, dvt connected, and yes regularly drove kart with laptop in lap), trial and error would take forever to get where BSR is at currently. Multiple times I was ready to retun everything because it was so much slower than the previous kart with half the power. When trying to activate regen in the file, first attmpt was way too strong, over slowed the rear axle and almost spun me at 50+mph… on my curbed testing street. To sum up this bullet, do as you like, but its not for me.

  2. Pretty sure they are the same.

  3. I cant stress enough how well this is packaged. What else do I like? For starters, I messaged BSR asking to sell(they will) spare brackets, mounts, etc; eventually my old kart will be converted to another of these and Ill use all of their stuff. Controller and motor block??? You have no idea how clever and well packaged until you open the cover!!! I never dreamed any of this with my build(1 brain, but still). I used CAD and a laser plasma table to build so many parts, but their stuff just looks nicer, fits better and always works! Their product is what I made, except I dropped out of mechanical engineering and didnt have 20 engineering friends.

On the bright side, it looks like Ill have some company next year. 175 shifter guy and the club director are buying electric. When you show up and race, its too cool for everyone to not want one… the want just stops when they see the cost. This is obviously more than running L0206, but silmilar enough to shifter money for others to consider a switch!

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Hey Chad,

Thanks for your quick response and all your input.

I know what you mean, a production level system is always next level… I will contact BSR and see what type of deal I could get with them. I would certainly be in a good position to influence quite a few drivers here in Montreal to give it a try…

Do you have any idea on the controller that is used in the BSR? Do they have their own technology? That could explain how they can get a perfect tuning for their motor.

You are mentioning that you struggled with programming and setting up the Sevcon controller… I read a few threads online of people spending quite a bit of time dyno’ing their setup, I guess that this is what you were referring to that would have helped. Correct? Did you end up managing to make some decent power with it in the end?

On another note, if you are considering selling your Sevcon and ME1507 setup I could be interested. I am looking into gearing up imminently. I have identified my battery and BMS but have yet to close on the motor + controller side.

FG.

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BSR use Sevcon controllers for the 25kw.

A dyno would have definitely helped, but the ability to go from lab to track to lab is extremely important. Yes, dyno numbers are important, but it doesnt always show functionality in the real world. Yes, my previous setup made some power, but illegally (too much battery weight) and with issues (throttle cut out requiring power cycle, over temp with any significant running). BSR not only has the drivability smooth, but you can race it on the limit FOR THE ENTIRE RACE. I would call this “fully sorted.”

Ive considered selling the other motor and controller, but that kart is literally a set of brackets away from being another BSR kart, and already having those as test parts/spares is invaluable.

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I bought a 2019 Birel shifter an hour ago :slight_smile:

I would only need the motor and controller shall you decide to get rid of these parts…

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Well that was quick😅 At the used cost you would want my parts, its worth me keeping them for now.

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Yeah found a good deal on my brand (Birel) :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Will keep you updated with the project.

And I might also buy a BSR setup, let’s see!

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FG

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