Any tips regarding inputs or something else?

Oh boy I must address this for sure. You are absolutely right, I do this more than I realize and obviously should. As I started racing Iwas taught by a friend to keep “blipping” the throttle so the engine won’t fade/bog. A few months ago I’ve posted a video here to also be analyzed and someone told me that was wrong specially on entries. Since them I police myself but not enough as the video shows :sweat_smile:

Thanks again

I think throttle blip is more of a gear shifting issue on downshifts. Here’s a countryman of yours doing it in a car:

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Brazil may be different. But, if you want to get gud, let this insecurity go. Your talent only takes you so far. Asking questions and challenging your assumptions is the way forwards. What you think you know is probably only partially correct and it’s likely that your assumptions limit your progress.

If that’s weakness so be it. Giggle as you pass the cool guys who keep it all close to their chest.

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Last thing and I’ll buzz off…

Your helmet is too big, it sounds like. There should be no play like that. Helmets, when new, are tight. The foam breaks down a bit and adapts to the contours of your noggin.

If your helmet is moving around on your head, that’s not good and it can come off in an accident.

what helmet do u have?

Thanks Felipe!

By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.
[Confucius] :wink:

Just make sure that you first ask yourself good questions (reflection), and you question each answer you come up with (following each question to it’s logical end) so that you learn as much as possible. This is how you build the lattice of understanding you will climb to pull your performance up. If you are having trouble finding the answers you need (or identifying the next question to ask yourself), then ask someone who has your best interest at heart. Note, if someone thinks your weak for asking (specific and well thought out) questions, then maybe they are not the best person to ask. :grin:

In general I think you have received good feedback here, so start with that (visualize the changes you want to make every day before your next outing). I would add that in general you seem to be driving reactively much of the lap (which is to be expected considering your experience level). For example, I watch the video on youtube in slow motion, it seems like the biggest issue on certain turns is not the actual ‘turn-in’, but leaving the steering input in just a fraction of a second too long. Put another way, you are waiting until you get the feedback from the kart that it is rotating, and then you react to that with steering correction. However, by then the ‘wave’ of rotation has already begun, and is gaining momentum, so you have to play catch-up to that with your correction, and then because of that, you have to more aggressively steer back into the turn once the correction is donw, and so on. So an energy oscillation is started that messes with the kart’s balance, tire loading, etc., as @tjkoyen pointed out.

Bla, bla, bla. So here is some practical advice, consider this:

Remember there is nothing magic in the cause/effect process of driving. The driver provides input to the kart (cause), the kart relays that ‘request’ to the tires, and then loads, traction, and slip angles build cyclically until they peak, hopefully at the tire’s limit, and at the correct spot on the track (This is the energy cycle I talk about in my advanced driving pdf).

As loads, traction, and slip angles are building, forces (g-loads and rotation) are concurrently building on the kart, but these resulting forces are delayed just slightly from the ‘cause’ forces. So, because of this delay, if you use this feedback you will be behind the kart… you’ll be reacting to the kart.

To become a more Active, or Pro-Active driver, once you have made a driving input, focus less on that ‘cause’ (the steering or other inputs), and turn your attention to ‘feeling’ the energy cycle build, so you can predict when it will peak. That way, you will be able to have the confidence to remove steering input before the energy cycle has completely peaked, because you know and trust that it WILL peak, which means that the energy is peaking under your direction. If you do this, then you are controlling rotation instead of the other way around.

That may be a bit much, so feel free to hit me up with any questions… I won’t think your weak. :grin:

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I must say, I always feel like I’m listening to a spiritual guru when you explain things Warren, and I really appreciate the intersection of physics and less tangible things like “feelings” and “energy” in your explanations of driving.

I’m not sure if that’s your intention or not, but for me it really encompasses all of the aspects of high-level driving.

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Actually Senna was famous for a ‘blipped’ throttle application with cornering; not just for downshifts.

I have my own ideas on why, and the benefits there of, related to load building in the rear tires. By way of illustration, try this:

Get a spoon full of sugar, and something to dispense it into. Now smoothly rotate your wrist/spoon to carefully control the precise poring of sugar into the container. This typically goes something like “nothing, nothing, nothing, crap way too much”.

Do the same thing again, but as you are turning your wrist, gently, and continually, tap your wrist with two fingers from your other hand. This chaotic, un-smooth technique typically results in a much more ‘controlled’ dispensing of the sugar. :grin:

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Driver61 did a good video on Senna’s throttle technique: What Was Senna’s Bizarre F1 Technique About? - YouTube

Unique challenges (monster turbo cars) require unique solutions. I was taught when I started Rotax that you always wanted to keep some throttle on, even during braking phases to keep the power valve open for better power off the corner. No idea if there was any validity to that, but there is definitely a noticeable difference in driving style for that particular engine when it comes to throttle application.

Driver61 also had a good video contrasting Senna’s style with Schumacher’s style, which was much more robotic and precise: How Schumacher’s Driving Style Won 7 F1 Championships - YouTube

Michael was so precise and had an absolute feel for the grip limit. Senna did too, but rather than holding the car at the limit, he was able to really dance the car just over or under the limit. Some of that footage of him in the Lotus really demonstrate how much his car moved around.

I don’t even have to try to know it works. All those years of mixing photography solutions I experienced this. It’s odd but yes the tap tap tap creates precise burst of energy that overwhelms the surface friction holding the powder together.

The tap creates a disturbance which frees a certain amount (force dictates amount) from its surrounding crystals. It’s predictable.

Tipping the spoon creates a much larger and much longer energy wave that results in a sudden break of the structure of the crystals (once the longer wave of energy reaches critical mass), resulting in a big uncontrollable dump.

The tap tap tap makes sense in the chicane but not in a big 180 at end of long straight.

Thanks @tjkoyen, coming from you, I really appreciate that!

It is my intention / life’s work. I feel like beyond the basics, there is not much information out there about how to really understand driving, and how to teach yourself to drive. I plan to eventually try and explain my ‘way’ of driving on a YouTube site that I’m going to call “The Integrated Racer”. It will be my attempt to explain all of the ‘elements’ of driving, along with their interconnections, and interdependencies, for the various driver development levels… easy :flushed:

The extent of my delusion can be seen in the attached WIP mind map that I’m using to organize my thoughts, and will eventually use as my outline for creating videos. The red box at the upper-right is what’s covered by 90% of the racing books, videos, and schools, and the rest is what I feel drivers need to know (consciously or unconsciously) to reach their potential. Anyway, I hope to eventually cover everything if there is interest, and the channel/ideas gain traction, so to speak. :grinning:

The Integrated Racer-Map.pdf (6.5 MB)

Holy cow…

I am intrigued by your propaganda and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Seriously, this is worth doing. I’ve always thought you had a unique mind and approach. I worry that you will keel over before getting the “Warren Way” out there for the rest of the world to digest. Get cracking. :heart:

Warren this is perhaps the deepest few postings I have ever read on KP. You are on another level.

Your sugar analogy is something I have always wondered. Do I understand you are saying smooth (or maybe linear) is not always best?

Thank you Bob (and Dom)!

Rather than saying smooth or linear is, or is not best, I try to not think of techniques as being good or bad, but instead judge them on whether or not they produce the results you want for a particular application.

I guess it also comes down to what you are focusing on; the action, or the result. Clearly the act of just turning the spoon is ‘smoother’ than that of tapping your wrist. But the ‘results’ from tapping your wrist are ‘smoother’ (or perhaps that’s more controllable).

Clearly Senna’s throttle technique, while unorthodox, worked well for him throughout his whole driving career, but the question is why. We unfortunately we can never know for sure, and I would not be surprised at all if even Senna did not know how/why it worked. Many times the elite are not consciously privy to their intuitive genius. :wink:

Anyway, I have watched a number of the ‘Senna’s Throttle Technique’ videos, and felt the topic could be looked at from another perspective, so I’ve included my $0.02 on the subject below:

Even early in his career, Senna appeared to be a master of managing rotation and trajectory, so I would not be surprised if the throttle technique was a critical tool that allowed him to do this (instead of something related to big HP turbo motor management).

So, I wonder if Senna’s technique might have had three interconnected objectives:

  1. Managing the way tire loads built during the corner enter phase, but after the driver input that initiated the direction change.
    with the objective of
  2. Controlling where/when and how quickly the car rotates in yaw around it’s center of mass (e.g. transitions from entering the corner to exiting the corner)
    with the objective of
  3. Orienting the car in the most advantages trajectory, relative to the line being driven, for the exit phase of the turn. Whether the ‘most advantages’ trajectory is slightly oversteering, neutral (tangent to the line), or slightly understeering is, of course, dependent on many factors. However, in general, and especially when under hard acceleration, it seems that a trajectory that is neutral to very slightly understeering, allows the acceleration force to efficiently and coherently accelerate the vehicle by pushing through its center of mass. If the vehicle is oriented in even a slightly oversteering attitude, the acceleration forces appear to split: with most of the force accelerating the vehicle forward, while the remaining forces try to accelerate the car in yaw, which can cause excessive rear slip angles (scrub), the need to roll out of the throttle, or a spin.

This YouTube video is low quality (and has an annoying watermark), but if you look closely, you can see some differences between his technique and the other FF2000 competitors; who he completely spanks BTW.

Some of the more illustrative bits of the video occur at these time stamps:

3:00 – 3:23 – Observe how well balanced his car stays as he makes an outside pass, and again when entering the next turn. Also in that next turn notice how his whole car seems to drift (instead of one end or the other). NOTE: It’s easier to see this stuff if you want at 1/2 speed.

4:00 – 4:03 – Senna takes a much wider entry line than the other front runners. It seems like a ‘round’ entry like that would induce a lot (perhaps too much) yaw force, but if you look at this corner from the other camera angle (before or after this shot), he has the car on rails… perhaps this was an example of an ‘anti-yaw’ throttle technique at work?

4:10 – 4:20 – Again, notice how in the entry phase of the turn his whole car is in a balanced drift, and then when he bleeds off enough speed, he points it to the apex and goes.

7:12 – 7:22 – Notice how carefully he manages his slip angles and rotation.

In general, the other drivers in the video seem to have a segmented corner approach; they drive the front tire in, rotate, and drive the rear tire out. But Senna seems to have a more ‘holistic’ or ‘rounder’ (full corner) approach in that it seems like after the initial change of direction, he seems to induce, and maintain, more balanced loads between his outside front and rear tires.

When entering a corner, after the initial direction change, there is an increasingly intense wave of energy flowing longitudinally to the front of the car. If Senna is, in fact, using his throttle technique in this video, then I wonder if he is really using the throttle to send small ‘counter-waves’ that could both influence the momentum of the longitudinal wave’s intensity buildup (which I presume would also have an advantageous impact on the yaw rate ramp up), and limit the load transfer to the outside front tire, which would effectively leave more load on the outside rear tire. Both of these would seem to make it easier to ‘check’ initial yaw momentum, and maintain a trajectory that is relatively tangent to the line being driven throughout the turn. So perhaps he was a biological active suspension system. :grin:

Also, I would not be surprised at all if the frequency or tempo of the throttle applications was directly related to the anticipated longitudinal and yaw forces for the turn. For example, a higher frequency for a tight turn with heavy braking, which would induce high degrees of load transfer and yaw, and lower frequency for higher radius turns where the forces build more gradually.

As an Irishman I feel indirectly attacked :joy:

Sidenote: Believe it or not, that road course was more-or-less the home of Karting in Ireland for decades. Making Senna’s performance all the more impressive (or sobering) considering that Greenan etc had been racing that track in karts too.

I think it’s also important to note that there may be differences in how the “stabby throttle” works in karts vs. cars. I recommend against it in karts as we have the unloaded inside rear to think about it. And also let’s be honest… no one here is Senna-level. As most coaches and drivers agree, Senna’s technique is unusual, so he’s an outlier.

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Yeah doing that Senna burpee technique in a gearbox kart will either cause you to 1) “buck buck buck” literally forever, or 2) slap wheelie…which might look cool, but is guaranteed to be not fast :joy:

This one: Sparco Air Pro RF-5W

Sorry for triggering you. :rofl:

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Man, the whole concept here really speaks to me. The ability to put this into practice is what takes a driver from OK to GOOD, and similarly from GOOD to GREAT. I see it all the time with friends, teammates, and coaching clients, but you’ve managed to find a great way to put this skill gap into words.

Question: have you found any way to expedite this process other than laps^∞?

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