Briggs 206: Bodywork, Tires & Chassis Disparity


(TJ Koyen) #1

I just don’t get where all these LO206 and Yamaha racers are. All I hear all day on social media is “LO206 is huge! Give us a class!” and “Everyone owns a Yamaha, don’t drop it from your schedule!”

And then when it comes down to it, 2 people show up to race the respective classes and the series has to drop them.

IAME KA100 coming to America
(Eric Gunderson) #2

On the flipside though, I do think there is at least a history of racers in those classes being there.

I am skeptical that replacing LO206 Sr. With KA100 is the best thing to do, but it could work. Why not make both classes available for now, and see which one people gravitate towards before tanking one?

(James McMahon) #3

I think entries were crazy low in man cup for 206. Probably due to date collisions with local and regional dates when their touring series came to town. I think a lot of people with 206’s just didn’t have an interest in running one with WKA.

(Daniel Agee) #4

They’re all out here in California! Or Canada. Lol. In the KPX series, they routinely get 30 entries or so in Senior and a dozen in Masters. Skusa ran a 206 Invitational that had 27 entries.

Just speculating, so I could be wrong, but maybe where WKA races, 206 is actually viewed as an entry level class like it’s intended to be so those newer racers with 206s aren’t running the regional Man Cup? Thus the two entries. Yamaha, who knows. I hear the same thing here that “everyone” has a Yamaha sitting on their shelf in the garage yet the class is nearly extinct in NorCal. I’m trying to change that.

(Aaron Hachmeister) #5

I think that you got it pretty well. 206 is “entry level” and Man Cup is just too much for that. I think the expenses that are associated with the WKA event are what push people away. We have a 206 cup here that does really well, and I think that is more appealing to the drivers.

I think if SKUSA had a 206 class for the whole series, they’d have to price it differently than the others to appeal to the demographics of a 206 driver. I think that’s partly where WKA missed out.

(Morgan Schuler) #6

IAME is doing their best to kill the Yamaha that’s for sure. Instead of fixing the problem and actually promoting the class series take the easy money again. It’ll be interesting to see how many buy into the KA100 program next year, both at Rt. 66 and Man Cup. Especially when you have almost zero participation at the club level. Top down promotion is a bold strategy Cotton.

The biggest problem is everyone specs a different tire. For 206, just in the Midwest, you have Vega Red, MG Red & Blue, BS YLC & YDS, and Hoosier. Some on 7.10 rears, others 6.0. Then throw in the requirement some have that you must run new tires. Oh yeah, CIK vs Gold Cup bodywork and seats. Organizers are giving people an easy excuse not to race.

We’ve tried having money races. 9 Yamaha’s showed up a couple weeks ago at Davenport. 61 Kartway is guaranteeing $500 to win for 206 Heavy Oct. 15th. Open tire and bodywork. I’ll be disappointed if that doesn’t get a good turnout.

(TJ Koyen) #7

Could be a whole host of other factors but the reality, at least for Yamaha, is that people just aren’t showing up to race at the national level. Route 66 gets 15-20 junior Yamahas and 15-20 senior Yamahas per event, but USPKS literally got 4 senior Yamahas last year before the class was cancelled and was getting around 3 juniors this year until ZERO signed up for the last event.

Not sure what they could do to fix the problem. The class was there and none of the regional competitors wanted to come out and race.

The problem is that about 10 entries is the dead zone. You start getting less than 10 entries and everyone starts to go “oh well, I just won’t go to that race” and all of a sudden the class evaporates overnight.

The LO206 stuff is crazy. Such a great class and could be enormous if you could get everyone on the same page with regards to rules.

(Eric Gunderson) #8

TJ, maybe I have missed the boat slightly. What part of the Briggs rules are people disagreeing on?

I agree on the 10 competitors value. Around there is where people get shifty and uncertain.

If series make the class available and equitable in terms of easy to run at the same event as other classes, and people don’t show up, that isn’t IAME or the series attempting to kill the class. It’s people making other purchasing decisions ultimately. Deciding to keep your engine on the shelf is just as much a conscious choice for karters as is paying for rebuilds and going to race. Kudos to you for recognizing that.

(Aaron Hachmeister) #9

Some classes require CIK homologated karts, some are open. Different series/clubs will run different brand’s or compounds at both 6.00 or 7.10 rear wheels. It’s a lot of variation from track to track

(Eric Gunderson) #10

Is that Brigg’s sandbox to wade into? Of course those things affect the performance of the kart overall, but they are not directly related to the Briggs engine package.

Again, just my thoughts, that doesn’t seem like something Briggs should sort out. Would like to see a consensus reached on it though. In Colorado, we specify the tire and width for our series (IKF Regional), so it’s pretty straight-forward. Can understand the frustration for those in a state where multiple sanctioning rule sets are not in agreement.

(TJ Koyen) #11

I wasn’t implying it was an issue on Briggs’ end, not their fault at all. It’s the organizations tailoring their programs to what’s popular locally, which is all fine and good for local competition, but that means in a regional/national setting, you will never draw outside of the locals at whatever track you’re at. No one is going to travel to race if they have to buy new wheels, tires, or bodywork first.

(Don Westlie) #12

I can only speak of 206 in regards to local scene and 206 Cup.

Locally(WI/IL), the clubs all run open body work. Tires are different but many places and racers will give up a set for people to come race. RA routinely has 40(all classes) 206’s on Tuesday nights, Saturday has always been lower. Badger will have close to 30.

206 Cup runs open body work and at Regional (North/Central) entries are 60ish. At the Grands last weekend we had 150. That’s a really good turn out for a first time event. Not many races are pulling 150 entries. Let alone on one engine package. TJ, you should come play!

I think with the 206 crowd, open body work is the way to go. There isn’t a difference enough in lap times to say CIK body vs Gold Cup matters. Some claim it, but most are off the pace any how and GC wouldn’t help them if it was faster…

In regards to WKA and 206. The entry costs are way out of wack. You are double what 206 Cup is. And lets face it. They do not treat the racer very well. Any chance they’ve had to cut the 206 racer they have. On the other hand is 206 Cup. They actually listen to what racers want. Take the input and devise plans based on said input. We were at a race this year and asked for more laps, vote was held right at drivers meeting. We received more laps. Stipulation was we needed to be on grid on time to not hold the show. Racers did just that.

I don’t think Briggs should get involved with the chassis, body work etc. They’ve given us an engine package that works. Let the racer decide what he wants to do with his chassis etc. If you want all the same thing, get a Margay Ignite. You can still race Daytona with that :slight_smile:

Adding in, Vega announced it is actually lowering the tire cost for 206 Cup Vega Reds next year. Should help the fields too.

(TJ Koyen) #13

If I had a kart, I would seriously consider running some 206 stuff! My dad and I don’t really fit into the same seat or I would just drive his kart.

(Don Westlie) #14

What size seat are you in? Next season you could come out and burn some laps in my Son’s Ionic. Randys 5’10ish 150ish and in a Med but it’s a laydown. Not sure if you could go full Gold Cup. That’s blasphemy for the CIK 2 strokers LOL

(James McMahon) #15

I bet the engineer brain between the two of you could figure out an insert to go inside the bigger seat that would work for you

(Ted Hamilton) #16

I’ve considered running 206 because it’s less physical than even the KA100 (which is less than a TaG 125, I’m sure.) It seems silly to me that 4 cycle sprint racing should have different rules than CIK 2 cycle classes. As long as everyone’s running the same thing, it doesn’t matter if the CIK bodywork is .3 sec slower per lap. I’d just as soon be rid of the abominable full enlosed bodywork, long or short course. If I wanted a full body I’d go buy a Spec Racer SCCA car… The exception should be FKE, which doesn’t exist anymore (shame.) My local track (GoPro Motorplex) has a strong LO206 program which makes the choice harder…

(TJ Koyen) #17

I have no shame.

I’m 5’7", 130. I can just lay on a blanket of lead strips duct-taped together like the dirt oval guys had me do…

(Dan Schlosser) #18

I think 206 has pretty healthy support at the club level. Where it should be and needs to be healthy. The regional and national programs dedicated to the 206 are doing OK because the schedules, pricing and rules all are geared toward 206 racing rather than just being paddock filler and back gate boost to a 2-cycle series. National 206 racing is an oxymoron really - National Local Option… :roll_eyes:. As an industry we need 206 to thrive at the local level where it is helping to build (or rebuild) club level racing. The last thing we need to be doing is taking guys that may spend $2000-3000 a year Karting and ask them to travel to three day events where the gas, hotels, entries and new tires for one event will eat half their yearly budget. When the money runs out those people just start skipping club events.

As for Yamaha - after the umpteenth attempt to kill it driven by yet another manufacturer or importer you get exactly what we have now. Which is 10,000 engines on shelves and people weary to invest in packages to race them because “Yamaha is dead”. Again, the problem is industry related and not consumer related. The industry did its best to kill off the package courtesy of manufacturers incentives to the various series, clubs and tracks. Look at places that didn’t take the bait like New Castle where Sportsman, Junior and Senior Yamaha routinely draw 20+ in each class. Why are they still healthy there? Because no one was trying to kill the package and they maintained consistency.

I do think if Briggs had a reasonably priced spec tire from the start (preferably a hard club tire) that the growth would be even bigger. I know they didn’t want to infringe on local club rules and programs or look like they were profiting from getting in to the tire business but a Briggs branded spec tire could have done several things - controlled costs, streamlined rules so people could show up anywhere to race and maybe most importantly it could have created a huge promotional fund for Briggs to advertise/promote the sport.

(Don Westlie) #19

Briggs pulled the LO from LO206. Not that it changes the theory on what it is. It’s a great package to get those in the sport that don’t have the coin for a 2S or Animal, which is pretty much dead in sprint, set up.

I honestly expected us to move to a KT by now but I like the fact that I don’t have to deal with clutch, engine, carb etc. We went into racing for family time, bit of an oxymoron itself… I get more of that when I can tune the chassis and then throw the football with the kid.

Having a step up from club to Regional/National has been fun for us. Going to new tracks and post race fire with cold beverages are things you don’t usually get a club races and adds to our overall family and extended kart family fun. My Wife and I sat down and thought of going Legends cars but losing the above family and extended family time will keep us karting.

And thats how you take a convo in a complete different direction. #Squirrel LOL Sorry @KartingIsLife

(James McMahon) #20

When I spoke with @BriggsRacing about that, I think he said (Perhaps in jest) it’s because it’t no longer just a local option, but the ONLY option.