Hairpin turn in low hp kart

Kewl. Post the first one here at least so we can sub.

Definitely will post it. If nothing else, my over driving should be entertaining.

Yesterday, the best time was 49.653s (L7), best laptime this year. Other 49s were 49.918s (L4), 49.904 (L6), 49.767 (L9), 49.743 (L10). By the way, first and second sectors were pretty much the same, but in 3rd, the 8-9-10-11 complex was .5s faster. That is where I made some progress I think. My average time was 0.001s slower than previous session where I got the first 49, so consistency is there in only 1 session, not after 2 in a row.

Deadline is 24th September, meaning that until that day, best 100 people put in laps and 50 fastest drivers go through next phase.

Best time set so far is 48.614s and the worst just over 50s (someone got 51s, I guess traffic and bad session in general). To be honest, I expect to go to top50 and give it all to go in top25, I think I can do that. Everything is possible in races that come up next after 25 people are selected (5x 5 people racing, each groups winner drives in final). Currently I am in P14, I will post a video and share a link here, as I donĀ“t want to make it visible on youtube, as it is only one lap and unedited. https://youtu.be/kZKmkCwbSgI

To be honest, the lap I drove was not what I wanted, it was not good from the beginning. I wasnĀ“t really confident in any lap I did and I thought ā€œPlease be under 51sā€. The average was 50.266sā€¦

@Bobby Nice, I would love to see some of your footage!

Pavle,
So between now and then, you can run as many laps as you want? Or is there some system for quali laps?

I can run as many laps as I want, I am not limited (except by my own budget lol).

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You have improved at an incredible rate, so there might not be much that I can still help you with, but I think there is a subject in which you can improve: your mindset. When I see footage of you driving I see you shaking your head, ducking down for improving aerodynamics and now I read that you are worried about your laptime. All these things seems like distractions from your ultimate goal: improving racecraft.

What I mean: your objective shouldnā€™t be ā€œnow I drive a 49ā€, but it should be ā€œwhat do I need to do to nail the next cornerā€. When you nail all the corners in 1 lap, the laptime is automatically there. Perhaps your ambition to drive a good laptime is hurting your concentration about when to brake, where to look, how to shift the COG, when to turn in, when to straighten the wheel and so on. You have control over all these things, but you donā€™t have control over the stopwatch. Do I make sense?

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That is some awesome advice! Far out. Mind blown

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Thank you for mentioning that. I see that every time I drive but I donĀ“t feel the benefit of all of that and it really bothers me sometimes. The thing is, especially head shaking, ducking is what I have seen on TV/youtube and by default I am thinking, yes do that, that is what you should do.

I completely agree with you, I should really concentrate on the driving rather than behavior/ā€œoverthinkingā€ while doing so. As a person in general, I tend to ā€œoverthinkā€ and I get nervous pretty fast over unimportant things, so I really need to work on that as it will not fix it self.

While we are at nailing the corners, I got the sector times from the hitfilm, and after I put in the lap with all the best sectors I get a 49.399s. Meaning, only if I was focused more and if I managed to put in a clean lap, laptime would automatically be 3 tenths down. Not to mention that I can improve in each sector much more and that time can go even lowerā€¦

You have a very good point, I will make sure to work on this as it is one of the problems I have in general, not only racing or any kind of sport. To be more focused and have a better concentration and to not overthink. Thank you for this, it was really helpful!

@Stacker

Wanting a fast lap, at least for me, complicates things. And, tends to lead to overdriving. The only solution I have found to this is to run so many laps that I can sort of mentally check out and just supervise the whole process. This takes time and many laps in the same track.

I think you are probably at a very pivotal moment in your driving here. It appears that you have made progress and now you want to see the results in competition. Iā€™d say go for it. But, be very cognizant that you still tend to pushing a bit hard into corners. Just try to maintain a calm detachment. Not sure how you get there, but not letting your emotions/desires get ahead of you helps.

Thereā€™s already enough pressure as is. Look ahead, both figuratively and literally. What happened last turn is behind you. Overthinking the next turn doesnā€™t help either.

Shut brain off and flow. Talk to someone in your head as you drive. Anything to get your mind off the action and release your ā€œlearnedā€ behaviour. Itā€™s ok to think about your driving but itā€™s not ok to think about what will happen. Just do.

Edit: with helmet mount sometimes it points too low. One thing you can do is use a screwdriver to tighten the mount down once you find a good angle.

Hehe. I do love me a good sector time. That being said, almost without fail, when I am too focused on improving my laptimes, and I absolutely slaughter s1 (woohooo!!!) 99% of the time I manage to screw up in s3.

I donā€™t know exactly how to deal with this but when I really want a faster time and I get it in the sector I need, I HAVE to calm myself the hell down.

Anyways, IRL you arenā€™t getting instantaneous feedback that you were 3/10 faster in s1. But if your butt tells you you went faster, try to let it play out in a more emotionally controlled way. Or, donā€™t get too excited.

I have been inspired by Terence Doveā€™s book (have you read it yet?) about this. Compare your brain with a computer. A strong computer that is able to process a lot of things at the same time: your speed, the distance from where you are driving to the point where you need to break, the driver ahead, the ideal line etc. Bear in mind that this computer needs input from your eyes. Therefore it is vital to look towards where you are going. Terence Dove explains this very beautifully. Everytime you duck down (or look behind for that matter), your computer takes a reset. So when you look ahead again, your computer needs a split second to start up again.

So ducking down is faster (albeit not much), consider that there are disadvantages that could outweigh the advantages. Perhaps a more stable mental state has more effect on your laptimes.

There may well be an argument that in 125cc tag and up that ducking does create an aero benefit. Pretty sure itā€™s totally irrelevant on our 6hp Honda gxs.

@Stacker
Remember that idea that when you drive you are comparing what you are doing to what you expect to do mentally. Basically you are parallel processing where you are as compared to where you expect to be.

Itā€™s subconscious but very much the case. When you make a mistake, for example, you know you screwed up Instantly. You donā€™t need to drive to the next corner to know that you are off plan.

If you want to get really deep into this, we should start discussing how you ā€œlookā€. What you look at and how you pay attention to things is a big part of fast, imho.

Exactly :laughing:

Understood, everything is clear about what you said in the first post, you got the point completely.

Same happens to me but only on my wheel at home. At the track, if I am aware of being slow/fast, I tend to push myself (not in a bad way like overdriving, I do that on sims). The thing is, I am not always aware of how fast am I going, so sometimes like at L6, if I knew that first 4 corners were .3s faster, I donĀ“t think I would run wide on the exit of 11, I would not let that happen. I feel my concentration goes up and down throughout the session, but when I feel ā€œthe lapā€, I donĀ“t make cardinal mistakes that will cost me half a second, like I did in that lap. I think the game (sim) has different effect on me when I play it, I am more hyped about it, so I guess that is the reason why I make those mistakes there.

Also, I never actually had a proper kart race (only timed sessions) so I guess I have no right to talk about mistakes in any kind of way but alright :grin:

Not yet, but I am planning on buying it (or any kind of literature that includes karting).
That is one hell of a way to describe such effect on your brain, ducking down and then looking up again. I was unsure just about that what you mentioned, small advantage in aero or better concentration. Seems like I found an answer.

Yup, that is what I first thought about ducking as well lol.

I guess you mean to where do I literally look at, how far in the distance am I looking at, at the apex I am at or already at the next corner, right?

No. Yes. Maybe.

Itā€™s complicated :crazy_face:. Give me some time to wrap my arms around explaining what I mean. Itā€™s more about perception than mechanics. Ok just checked work calendarā€¦ here we go.

Thereā€™s a bunch of stuff out there about vision. Itā€™s been reduced to ā€œhereā€™s what k-mag is focusing on as he drivesā€ with boxes and arrows, etc. and while thatā€™s interesting, itā€™s very incomplete.

Iā€™ll let Warrenā€™s writing about vision do most of the heavy lifting and Iā€™ll focus on one thing that is relevant to me when I am trying to push (or reel it back in).

Driving point to point isnā€™t really workable. You are only as good as your last turn. You want to be driving the whole track, broadly speaking. As such, you need to be able to visually take a broad, unspecific survey of everything. The entire complex.

The broad survey is very useful reset for your internal movie. It also allows your memory to locate and record, generally, everything coming up. You look into and through the complex. You are literally taking it all in briefly, including the various points on the way to the exit.

Generally, going ā€œBroadā€ like this reduces overall sensation of speed and allows your mind to calm the heck down.

Your mind is very very good at fixing a thing in space. Once you ā€œnoteā€ your path, you can then drive that path without specific focus on that path. You will very likely clip the apexes even though you arenā€™t focused on them as you approach them. You will see the apexes go by peripherally.
Itā€™s not a stare into the future thing and hope you clip apexes. You need to shift between broad and specific focus as things happen. However, your focus is trying to stay ahead of the kart, generally.

So, blasting down straight I am approaching the final sector. I have a big braking zone that then has a chicane followed by a fast sweeper uphill and out.

As I bounce off limiter, pre-braking, I take a broad picture of whatā€™s ahead. I quickly mentally see the big picture, all the way to the exit at the top of the hill. That exit remains the dominant thing.

My attention goes specific as I prepare to brake. Iā€™ll take a quick glance at the immediate turn, mentally lock in apex, and then forget about it and focus on the exit. As I come through the turn and pass apex, I register it but I am looking at whatā€™s beyond. As I lock in exit I go broad, note the chicane apexes, and drive to the exit at the top of the hill. I can shift to specific if my trajectory calls for some management if the chicane or sweeper get weird.

The point is donā€™t over focus on anything. You drive to what you look at, generally. If you overfocus in an action, you arenā€™t seeing the bigger picture. You emerge from that turn then having to react and ā€œwhatā€™s next?ā€.

Notice things that are relevant to your path using broad vision. Use specific attention to confirm things as you hit them if necessary. Trust your minds ability to allow you to be very precise without having to concentrate on it.

Think about itā€¦ you put your kart within an inch of the wall every lap. You arenā€™t looking at the wall outside of 7, you are looking for the entrance to 8.

Learn how to view the big picture and not get mentally trapped focusing on the details. The details are important, of course, but itā€™s easier to just let them happen than trying to initiate them.

Itā€™s a bit odd, I grant you, but it works.

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The whole session looked very improved. You are getting a lot quieter but you are still sometimes understeering a bit too much through 8. I suspect that if you understeer through there, thereā€™s no real benefit. I think you make 9-11 a bit harder by charging the entrance to the complex slightly.

Also, it looked like you shot out of 3 pretty good. Not sure if because traffic changing 1 entry?

Please try brushing the brake prior to entry of 8 or something. Just try one with no understeer. See if it allows you to turn into 9 balanced and ready to demolish 10-12. Maybe try not hitting 9-10 kerbs. I feel like it can be smoother and therefore faster.

ā€œAlso, I never actually had a proper kart race (only timed sessions) so I guess I have no right to talk about mistakes in any kind of way but alright :grin:ā€

TT is different but same thing. You are good. Different pressure but worse in many ways. Itā€™s more like leading a race than being in the mix.

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@Stacker Sorry to keep hammering this but hereā€™s a vid with hulkenberg. Whatā€™s interesting is that when asked about it, he doesnā€™t consciously use ā€œvisionā€.

Also, the narrator refers to this as a ā€œsuper senseā€. Bullshit, I think. Itā€™s learned behavior. In Hulkenbergs case he does it instinctively, as far as heā€™s concerned, apparently. That being said, he had run ALOT of laps in his career so maybe it just happens? I think the presenter from sky is making a mistake when he says that hulkenberg is spending a lot of time looking at his apexes. Yes but his eyes arenā€™t staying there.

Nicoā€™s reaction times may indeed be superhuman, that I have no clue about. His vision, however, is trained by doing.

Hereā€™s K-Mag same thing:

Go deeper here:


But maybe after you done with quali and TT? This is a lot to process. This is the good stuff.

Driver 61: also worth a look

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This is very interesting topic, indeed. I do remember where I look and sometimes it matches your suggestion, sometimes completely the opposite.

I know that I am doing something similar to what you mentioned but only in the first 7 (1,2,3,4,5 meh,6,7) corners, also much slower transition from specific and broad vision (I am not quick in that transition) but I feel I am doing it. Completely opposite, at least that is how I feel, is at 8-9-10. I am just concentrated right on the apex/es that I am coming up to. That is what causes many mistakes in 11 for example.

Overall, in the parts of the circuit where I am confident, I am starting to adapt my vision a bit (very slowly) but in the parts where I am unsure of what I am doing or what should I do to even get the corner right, I am not even thinking about where should I look to.

So in general, I think it is very important to know the correct line through the corner to get the comfort levels up and then I think I am ready to work on the vision completely, to fully work on it. Do you agree on this, I mean, does it makes sense what I am thinking? Because, I am still working on the actual driving through some parts of the track and I donĀ“t feel confident enough to just try and change the way I look at things, I feel I will get distracted from the actual driving.

I feel it is like Level 1: Master the line, Level 2: Improve vision and gain more time that way

Definitely, I donĀ“t think it is possible to make any progress on this field in a matter of 2-3 weeks. I will most definitely work on this after the competition and during the winter break on my wheel. I just feel this is the next level that I can go to only after I completely understand the track. Would you agree on this, or am I just suspicious about all of this and should I try it out as soon as I can?

To be honest, I really did not expect that lap to be the fastest because of traffic. Also, that first sector was 14.95s. Just a lap before, on lap 6, the first sector was 14.683s, almost 3 tenths quicker (screwed the 11 on that lap, go figure lol). So I am going to really compare and analyze what I actually did in both cases, I was just baffled that I was .3s faster with no dramatic line changes (I did have 15kg on the right side of the kart, the turn was going to the left, so maybe it was smoother weight transfer and the inside rear was free? not sure).

And yes, for the same reason, 15kg on right, I donĀ“t think it is really possible to have no understeer in the 8. Kart does feels much more stable in the 8,9 because of the weight but I donĀ“t know if I can just not understeer through it. Maybe at night time when tyres scream less, I can give it a go. I mean, I did that but it was pretty slow in last sector, best time with that low tyre screeching was 18.833s and the best with fast entry was 18.2s. Anyway, I will give it a try again of course, it could be the that the kart was slow on that day.

I know this feeling. Donā€™t fixate on apex. On approach, look at it but then look at where you want to be after clipping apex. At apex you are likely looking through exit to next turn. Youā€™ll see apex pass by in your peripheral vision. You donā€™t need to use the center of your vision to confirm the apex clip.

Yes. Donā€™t mess with anything too much imho, or, go completely off reservation and try. Your call. You have a couple weeks. It will likely mess you up slightly at first. Itā€™s something else to think about and that might be a bit much given your objectives.

Your line is good and you are consistently doing the corners basically the same each time. You may not feel like you have them dialed but Iā€™m pretty sure you know the track instinctively at this point.

Itā€™s pretty clear that from switchback to 8 you are likely ā€œsomewhere elseā€ and doing this on autopilot. Same with 12-finish. Iā€™ll bet you arenā€™t focused on 5-7 other than cursory ā€œall is goodā€ as you cruise on by.

Whatā€™s actually happening in your head there? I bet itā€™s so automatic all you are thinking about after switchback is ā€œ8ā€.

I donā€™t know how you get to 8-11 being automatic other than keep plugging. But it will come. Go broad as you come down straight. Note turn in. Go specific focus. Note apex. Brake, turn, look through 8 broadly as you turn to 9 apex. Etc. Whatever works for you, visually. You basically are using your vision to stay ahead or on top of of the Kart.

At some point you end up doing this automatically as your comfort level rises. (See 5-7).

I am stumped here too. It looks like the 2-3 bIt was subtly different. Bit thatā€™s likely due to traffic at entry. I am not sure if 3 apex should be clipped or slightly wide. I am guessing clipped. We need a better karter to answer this.

Well itā€™s always possible to slow down more and not understeer. But, you may be right that the understeer approach works best. I have yet to see footage of you trying to not understeer, really. Yes, you only get 10 laps a session. Spare one to try. It will probably be slower. Try anyways. What have you got to lose? What you give up on entry might open up a better out. I could be completely wrong.

@Stacker Did you notice that lap on your 49.63 between 11 and 12 you stayed narrower on exit of 11. Unlike normal, you didnā€™t run out to left side rumble strip. You got 12 nicely. Shorter travel? It looks like one steering input from exit 11 through 12 apex. Nice turn. Normally you are straightening out at rumble strip and then initiating a new turn to 12.

Your tires squealing all the way to rumble strip on exit from turn in of switchback. It really feels to me like thereā€™s gotta be a way to do this with less push.

Other differences: you were slightly wide 2 and 3 in 6 lap but nailed them in 7 lap. You were faster nailing them.

I wonder if your turn in on 7 for turn 1 was slightly later than usual due to traffic. It worked nicely on 1,2,3.