Hairpin turn in low hp kart

Alright, I think it is fair to work on the vision just after all the competition so I can be free to test out as much as I want.

About that first complex, there is something very interesting. The line seems to be fine, more or less, to the 2 apex wider or clipping 3rd as a result of choice in line at 2. What I have noticed is a way I add throttle or to be precise, when I add it.

I am still not sure what was the major difference between L6 and L7 in terms of 1-2-3 but I will look more closely at braking and accel. points today. I have noticed that I had .2/.25s advantage (was .3s in first 3T) before T10 on lap 6 in comparing to lap 7, but a heavy mistake into T11 dropped the L6 time for more than .5s.

I will give it a go at 8 if I feel the grip levels can allow me to not understeer, as sometimes it is very slippery so there is no point in such huge braking just not to screech. It is very demanding on tyres.

Yes! Turn 11-12 should be taken narrower somehow, but still unsure how. After watching many fast peoples footage I have seen that almost everyone is narrower through here. A lot to work on at switchback as well. The line is better as you guys helped a lot with that but amount of understeer is still huge so not much improvement there yet. Hopefully today I can work on little bits at 11-12 and hairpin, I will probably go to the track later on and I will see how does it feel.

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Good luck. Keep us posted.

48.720s. No comment :grin:. I got a full video, no battery problems, no mounting troubles. I will give you more info after I come home, not able to write much at the moment.

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You are a rockstar! That’s a big improvement! Can’t wait to see.

Cheese and Crackers that’s fast! So good! What position does that put you in?

@Bobby Wallace and Grommit reference! Or is that an Australian expression?

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@Bimodal_Rocket was just trying not to swear :rofl:. Although, I may have heard it from Wallace and Grommit as it was a favorite when I was younger. To take .9 of a second off your lap in one session is so huge!

Oh I understood! :checkered_flag::checkered_flag::checkered_flag::checkered_flag::checkered_flag:

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I am now in P8 (P3-P9 is about .15s apart) and first two guys are competing for like 6 years or so, they are experienced, they got 48.2s and 48.3s. Could“t get the video edited yesterday, but it will be ready soon!

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Here is the video of the session!

There are some pretty neat stats about the drive. Average laptime was 49.243s (11 laps). Sector one was pretty much the same, best second sector was .3s faster and the best third sector was .4s faster than previous fastest sector times. Let me know what you think, where am I losing those 0.5-0.7s?

I’m on the road till tonight. Can’t wait to watch.

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First off, Great Job!

The evolution of the session was really interesting. You are onto something.

What made you decide to start modulating throttle?

Even in the outlap, a couple things of note happened. Your 2-3 was interesting. The 11-out caught my attention, though. I think you learned from that previous session a better way around the top, that you, just there, started to really connect to 12-out. You start crushing this later.

Then, in the next lap (1), you start doing stuff with throttle as you apex past 8, which then starts becoming modulation as you use this to make your way through 9-10. You connect that first attempt very nicely to your new 11 out combo which is also a bit wobbly. However, it’s a very good start! Be careful on kerbs in general. You lost time on the one after the switchback that you bump yourself onto the straight with, I think.

  1. I can’t tell if being wide 1 hurt you much, in that the exit of 3 looked strong. Can’t tell if switchback was good but must have been because everything from there to 8 looked quiet and nice. You modulate again 8-10, clip them nicely, hook it up to a strong 11-out. Easy peasy.

  2. Well, that’s new. You lift a couple times between 1 and 2. Good exit out of three. Compromised switchback to 7. Pushed too hard into 8. Paid for it by getting your rhythm all goofy and oddly blowing the rotation between 10-11. Wide and then bogged. Furious head shaking.

  3. Well the lifting between 1 and 2 is back, this time for reals, though. Looks like around here is where you decided to fully embrace lifting and modulating. You give a lift right before 2 and then you try it again going into switchback. No drama switchback out to 7. Too fast into 8 for my taste but you furiously modulate speed with throttle pedal through complex and manage to nail every apex. If I’m not mistaken you grab a very nice 11. Narrower 11-12. Faster 12-out? Bam! Now you are in the 48’s. Congrats, Pavle!

  4. Ok now you are doing little lifts right before and through 1. Looks like now you are trying to control speed with throttle as opposed to brake. I think you would have been ok if you hadn’t clipped 2.
    Angry driving into switchback. You clip all apexes in next bit. It seems like this asked too much of the tires because of the noise at 10. There was some weird shaking as you came out onto straight.

  5. Back to braking for 1 / lifting 2. Messy switchback. Otherwise same as last lap but better 8-out. Again feels like pushing a bit hard 8-10. Back into 48’s.

  6. Had to lift for traffic.

  7. V wide 1. To your credit, you pull it together after blowing s1. I think this is where you put your head down.

  8. Much better tempo all around in 1-3. More traditional brake, turn into 1,Go, lift, turn into 2, Go.
    You narrowed 2-3. One piece throttle from entry of 2 all the way to switchback. Bumpy, but that was the apex bump? Seems OK.
    You then proceed to avoid kerbs you normally hit and have a smooth run to 8. Much better slowing into 8. You run a nice line through here. Still pushing the tires a bit past where they should go. But clean. I cant tell if you are just clipping the apexes because of the head shake. If you are, it seems to slightly upset the kart. You are quiet passing 11 which you don’t hit. You take the high line here between 11-12, not sure if ideal. But, you go purple! Great work!

This is big improvement and the beginning of you getting faster. You did something to try to counteract the tendency you have to push too hard into corners. The lifting transfers weight and allows for rotation (as well as slowing you down). You will learn to use this more precisely.

I think you want to try to keep it to one lift per turn, and only if necessary to rotate. Rapid lifting like that seems to me that it would ultimately slow you down in that its hard to be smooth if you are sending weight back and forth that often. Use brakes to bleed off speed and lifts to rotate, if necessary.

Concentrate on the tempo. Put the lifts at the right place in the music (the rotation points of 9 and/or 10, for example). Also, start thinking about when you are getting on throttle. If you are pushing too hard into corners, you will be playing catch up unless you get your braking perfect. Pull it back a bit on entry so that you can ensure that you are on gas when it is ideal.

Also, the kerbing seems to hurt in some places. Try avoiding some of the ones that you normally hit. And finally, try a lap or two with quiet tires.

Great Job, Pavle. I think you will improve a bunch from here, and quickly too.

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Take what you have and quiet the entry to 1, switchback, 8. Try braking into 1 and 8 differently. Get around 1 and 8 without noise a few times. See what happens.

Then, play with trying to be more selective about when and how often you lift. Learn to use the lifts to aid rotation rather than to control speed. Use fewer of them. Look for long one-piece throttle parts: ie 2-switchback and 10 out.

Stay off the kerbs that upset your kart.

Smooth this all out, basically.

The moment I jumped in the kart, it really felt that it is more powerful. I think the conditions that generaly helped tyres to understeer less, allowed me to carry much more speed into and through the corner so my instinctive reaction was to lift just a bit and it worked. Also, I was waiting 40mins for a drive, as only two karts are available for us competitors. In that spare time, I was analyzing the guys that drove 49“s and 48“s. What I noticed is really small amounts of understeer in 8,9,10,11 that they had. That could only be done by lifting as braking would just get that time over 48s for sure. So I gave it a shot and it worked! Oh, and these specially set karts actually have good throttle setup, no WOT or whatever. I could play a bit with it but still not lose much speed, so that is one benefit of these karts.

And interestingly, you mentioned messy hairpin at L6 but as sector times tell me, it was just about .034s slower than the one at the L11 (14.683s was fastest S1). It seems like it is pretty much about shorter distance and as least understeer as possible while doing so.

That wide entrance on 8 was just pure loss of concentration, not sure why, but I kept focusing on the workers by the pit and I was just a split second late on the brakes. You are right, I gave it all to just put my head down and I managed to only lose .2s in that sector and keep the lap under 49.5s. Being patient and keeping cool works.

Seems like timing is one of the things that stand out. It can be better. I think when I get this right, I will reduce the understeer through the corners, especially at 1,4 and 8. Lifts were purely my left foot, nothing about some routine or habit as you have seen, pure feel, instinct, however you wanna call it :grin:

Thank you for the review, another inspiration and another way to look at things really gives me motivation to push the limit and improve next time!

You are welcome. Go beat everyone.

14 days ago:

2 weeks from now, I wonder where you will be.

Ok then try using partial throttle reduction instead of lift in some places. In x30 and the like, I am rarely off throttle completely. Pretty much only for braking and a rotation lift.

Sometimes you only need a partial weight shift. You lift partially and squeeze it back in as you come through and accel out. You might be able to squirt around some corners quietly this way.

Since your now on the road to modifying your trajectory via forced rotation, you should revisit Warren, TJ, etc comments in Breakthrough or Delusion. This stuff is very germane to where you end up next. There’s a discussion about modifying throttle partially that’s of interest.

Hairpin is dark so I can’t see what’s happening. I was going off sound. I am baffled by that corner and think your initial thoughts about the turn being compromised by gearing might be correct. @d-i-y80 comments early on about the way these motors are set up may confirm that.
It’s gonna take a more experienced karter than me to give final approval etc on your version of that turn.

Not for today, but vision. Work on it. My thoughts about vision may not resonate. Find something that does and works for you. Avoid target fixation, keep your eyes moving. The center 5% of your vision actually ā€œseesā€ well. The rest is your brain filling in the gaps.

Give your brain lots of positional info: look broadly at the complex and specifically at things, but only briefly. The longer you gaze at something, the more your brain wants you to ā€œgoā€ there. Thus the corner workers and the resulting very wide 1.

Sorry, just and edit:

Wide entrance on 1*. I typed 8 for no reason…

You meant 1 in lap 8. I got it.

I agree with target fixation, it is completely truth. Happened a few times but this one had a consequence, a bad reaction. It could also combine with some fatigue from basketball game earlier that day and some other more or less sport activities, so I guess I was about to lose concentration more easily that day as well. I will try to eliminate every chance of this to happen again. At the end, if I was in a race, that would be a solid contact between me and the guy in front.

I see what you mean by the partial lift. I understand the idea and I think it could work. The only problem is that I never actually did it as karts I drove earlier were not this good, so it takes me some time to precisely adjust it if I want to be like 75% or 50% on power. It will take some time to get used to but I think you are right and it should be more useful than completely lifting, in some places of course.

I watched you pull yourself together as 8 lap threw challenges at you. You adapted, persevered, and went purple. That’s what matters.