Can we get some actual hard numbers on upfront cost and TCO for EV karts. The number I have in my head for a BSR equipped kart is about $16k.
It’s hard to rationalize purchasing or comparing an EV (or any) kart on a cost basis when the costs are not clear.
With different bodywork and chassis I assume?
Also what is the cost range for your product?
What do you mean by “accepted”. As in permitted, or as a class.
If you mean the former, I’d be surprised if that’s actually a problem. I think most tracks with outlaw/run what you bring classes would find a way to accommodate an EV kart.
If it’s the latter, the challenge I see with EV karts is akin to the TaG classes in the past. Clubs and organizations have to balance performance across different powertrains that were never intended to run against each other. Big swings in performance, a hodgepodge of motors/batteries/weights and controllers.
Granted the differences can be better managed with electric powertrains compared to trying to slow down a Sonik to the level of a PRD. But either way, either that needs to be managed at a club (or ideally national level), or a spec powertrain would need to be elected & promoted, which also means technical regulations and tech procedures need to be established as well as supply chain stabilized.
Which is a long winded way to say getting adoption is hard . But if you look at the 206, KA, x30 etc. You will find they did exactly what I described above.
Doesn’t change the fact that the energy density is poor. You still need spare batteries anyway. I am a rental facility, I want to run an endurance because it is where I make the most money. Should I force people to pit every 10 minutes ? Can you imagine that the mess it would be for pit crew and employees ?
30% starting from 80% or 100% charge ? Considering later in the post you talk about batteries being “used properly”, I do expect it is from 80%. But them you need to keep it above 20%, which means you only have 10% left.
Means nothing, what matters are charge cycles. You dont talk about these ever. How many charge cycles can your battery go through at what voltage and temperature ?
At current prices of electricity, highly dependant on the region.
Also highly dependant on the country, but yes, with a GX390 running E85 in France it is possible But I do agree, theorically Ekart should be cheaper. In real life, ROI after investment is at least a few years at constant electricity price.
Ok so I have a fleet of 50 rental karts running on a busy day. What should I do ?
Use a multiplug out of my standard sockets
Already got these, can’t have enough to charge the fleet + handle the facility power consumption. Oh and if it is overcast I just have no power
So what, I get 5 Tesla Model 3, get them to the nearest charger every few times a day ?
Basically it requires huge changes and investment just to handle the power consumption. It is not your role to find a solution, but right now there is no good solution for a facility.
That is a good thing.
Data. Show me accurate driving time and charging times or that means nothing. Being offered unlimited track time doesn’t mean drivers exploited that.
Technically true, but you disregard context to try and valid your point. ICE has poor efficiency, but fuel has a lot more energy density that batteries. What it means is that any percentage of efficiency you can gain is critical for electric motors. Especially at high RPM, which is critical on outdoor facilities.You are being dishonest here, using out of context facts for your arguments.
Keyword : Facility. Means rental. Means buying chargers and spare batteries, renovate electric infrastructure, on top of the fleet.
True
Or comes from somebody who experienced the rising price of electricity, even in a country with enough nuclear plants.
As I already said, I am 20 minutes away from a BSR Kart and yet you won’t facilitate me trying it. So this is bullshit.
To conclude, BSR offers a standard solution, with a standard lithium battery and motor, with a bit of corpo-bs and nice PR videos sprinkled on it. But it is not your role to innovate in those fields, and that’s all right. Just stop trying to make people believe otherwise.
I wish alot of people would give BSR / K1 Circuit and Other Electric Companys . And Tillotson and hope other gas companys that try to get into Karting . A chance to get some traction in the Karting Sport. An let them try to work out the bugs with cost and performance. Before telling people its not this or that. Dont think thats away to promote the sport in general. And get people to say hey what a great sport to join…
It would be great to give exposure, once there is a satisfactory solution. Until we get a breakthrough in battery tech, whatever it is (Al-Ion batteries (Pushed by GMG), Solid State batteries (Pushed by Mercedes Benz) or anything else), it is not worth promoting electric karting as you wont be able to convert outdoor rental facilities.
Also, RatioZero did announce their geared CVT, with much higher efficiency and reliability. Here
I may be getting a bit tired of seeing people shilling their business for free, especially when the product doesn’t bring anything to the table compared to the Sodi STX (bar the quick change of the battery) that was shown in 2011, and said people present their product as innovative.
But why not support people who are trying to help the sport from other means… Power plants… And grow the sport . Especially With Electric that rental people are familiar with. And these are the people who will get into sport in the future and make it grow… And there are more of them than any… I think we should let these companys do there thing and show us what they can do… Instead of downing them and there technology…
A couple people disagreeing with someone on a forum doesn’t represent the karting population “not supporting” electric karts. The pushback stems from years and years and years of new classes and engines and overall kart packages coming into the sport, convoluting the entry process, and confusing prospective karters.
Generally, adding new classes and engine options doesn’t grow the sport. It makes it more complicated for newcomers, as they have more options to consider. And a $15,000 investment into an electric kart isn’t feasible for 90% of people looking to start karting. Especially when used 206 packages can be found for $2-3k. Making things more economical and providing clarity for newcomers is what grows the sport.
We also have to keep in mind these are companies who have a profit goal. They aren’t saviors from on high sent down to save karting out of the goodness of their heart. No offense to BSR or any other company. But at the end of the day it’s a business, not a charity of goodwill toward the sport.
BSR has provided a lot of information here regarding their product and that’s great. I have no qualms about BSR or electric karts in theory. But we have to make sure we are being honest about what electric karts offer, the pros and cons, and allow discussion to really understand what they are about. Totally fine for people to ask hard hitting questions, because that will help the karting public learn and help BSR learn what the karting public wants to see or what their concerns are.
Ultimately, the market will decide whether the time is right for electric karts to start being feasible or not. It’s that simple. If the concept works and provides what BSR or other companies claim, then they’ll be successful and electric karting will become more popular.
Well shilling is a strong word. Artis as CEO has to be a CEO… but he’s also actively sharing and answering as best he can. We do have to give him a bit of leeway when he can’t be totally candid. We are pretty passionate and opinionated about karting. And skeptical of change… so there’s that too.
Can you elaborate a bit? The kart you show in the video doesn’t have the protective wraparounds that rental facilities use. (Trust me, for public recreational karting, it’s necessary).
The kart will drive differently with all the added weight associated with the effective crash damage mitigation stuff.
I am not sure how much added weight but consider that a typical race kart weighs about 180lbs and well protected rental karts are likely 400+ lbs.
Per Google:
The Sodi RTX electric kart weighs 180 kilograms with lithium batteries and 218 kilograms with lead acid batteries
How do you envision the kart as a rental vehicle? Are you planning to add safety stuff or are you looking to sell it as a club racing type kart without wraparounds?
In terms of “light” wraparounds take a look at the OTL kart. Minimal wraparound but will effectively prevent wheel to wheel contact, though won’t do much to protect chassis in a collision.
In my recent visits to this circuit, I noticed that the patrons were much more “respectful” of the kart and did not see the usual bumper car shenanigans. But I was there midweek during the day and people were sober.
I wonder if this time it’s a bit different? I do not have anywhere near the history of most here, having only been active a decade.
It seems to me that we are approaching an inflection point in terms of gas powered vehicles and we may be compelled down the road of e-power (or something else) legislatively?
Is there any reason to believe that sport driving would be exempted from future changes?
Honest question, I don’t have the history in the sport to get a sense of what might go down.
I don’t agree. Honestly they have been promoting their product a lot, producing a lot of hype videos out, for what ? When put on the grill, you can see it is just another attempt at an electric kart. And that would be alright, if they were not obnoxious about it.
And I want to reiterate : I want EKart to succeed. Why ? Because no noise means no complains from the people living around the track. It opens possibilities to run races overnight. But right now ? Tech is not there, doesn’t matter if it is from BSR, OTL, Sodi, RIMO, BizKart etc.
I think there are a lot bigger fish to fry for the government in terms of regulations before they get to our tiny little niche market. Given we haven’t outlawed 2-stroke karts yet and Europe is still racing 2-strokes, I imagine we are not close to being forced into e-karts.
And I don’t think we are on that inflection point for road going cars either, as most manufacturers have scaled back their EV commitments in the past couple years, as EV adoption hasn’t been as widely successful as they had hoped, and EV tech continues to be in it’s infancy. Just a couple years ago we heard brands like Mercedes saying they would be all EV by 20xx, and now many of those statements are being rolled back and car companies are now saying the ICE has some life left in it before EV tech and infrastructure can bridge the gap and really take off. EV cars are close in a lot of ways, but overall we are still struggling to get electric cars with over 300 miles of range that don’t weigh 8000 lbs.
One thing though, we could get swept up in it like it was with CA generally banning or thinking about banning (iirc) certain engines which just happen to be also kart engines… (looking at you, leaf blower).
You know how this country works though… What Californians like is very different to what Texans like. It would take legislation from the feds at a national level to make that sweeping change. And given where we are with this administration, I can’t see any federal support for electric car adoption, at least for the next four years. But who knows what kind of influence Musk could have on that I suppose.
Either way, let’s slowly back away from discussing government policy…
If you’ve been to an indoor track in the past 3-4 years you have likely driven an electric rental kart. It’s not such a far reach to say that most of the members in this forum have driven one before. The main point most people have about electric rental karts is that they are good for indoor tracks, they might even replace gas karts in that specific type of track. For better or for worse, most hobbyists will always prefer gas karts over electric in both rental and race trim.
. But if you look at the 206, KA, x30 etc. You will find they did exactly what I described above.
But I do agree, theorically Ekart should be cheaper. In real life, ROI after investment is at least a few years at constant electricity price.
