Just watched the KA Senior highlights at Daytona. 50 something karts on track? Just seems pointless and too chaotic. I get to an extent, if I’m there I want to be in the show, but 50?
I thought insurance and rules limited the number of karts on track?
Also the layout seemed so small for so many karts.
36 is the max you are allowed to be on track in EU in official events if I’m not wrong.
50 karts with different pace is just dangerous.
Yeah to be honest I’d rather try to race in with a Pre-Final or B-Main then be stuck in the back with 50+ karts. Racing or wrecking for 49th doesn’t sound pleasant.
Generally 40-ish is the limit but sometimes series will take all entries if there are only a few that won’t make the show through the LCQ. 50 at Daytona seems like a lot but I’ve run 40+ there before without much issue. 50 on a bigger track isn’t a problem. New Castle or similar spreads out and isn’t such a bullring.
is this Daytona ? what the hell !!!
Yes it is. X30s were doing 39 second laps I think. So quite a small track configuration.
Anything above 36 is dangerous, for any track, anywhere in the world.
You’re free to change my mind 
Too often a false equivalence between “annoyance for the leaders” = “too many karts.”
Traffic = chances to practice racecraft. There is almost no finer sensation than artfully scrubbing off your competition with a well-timed pass around a backmarker that they can’t clear.
We’re racing here, not time-attack.
That said, I’d place a certain limit on density per length…ie. 4 karts per .1 mi. of length.
I’d also place a minimum speed and black flag off those who are dangerously slow for NATIONAL events.
For club events (which are also unlikely to be as populated), all entries in class get to run. They paid their money and need the practice…
Lapped traffic was indeed given black flag to avoid incident.
My local club regularly has 40+ in 206sr, and that first lap is just carnage. Sure, if you are in the front half or better, you don’t have to deal with as much, but the backmarkers have to weave through all that mess without hitting each other. And, well, us backmarkers aren’t too great at reacting yet. A couple times, I have checked up and then been slammed into by someone who didn’t pay attention. There goes $500 in parts, but at least I got a good infield seat to watch the race… They actually did implement a B-main at the last race, but then there were enough no-shows to combine back to an all-entries A-main.
I took the last half of last year off for developing further, so we’ll find out in a couple days how it goes. I’ve also just flat decided to embrace the suck. My mantra is to worry about those immediately around me and not those that aren’t, however many that is.
Because they were DANGEROUSLY slow, or because they were “annoying to the leaders”?
I hate to see paying racers cut short because top drivers are prima donna’ who can’t be expected to use their superior skills to actually pass slower karts…that’s part of the game too!
It was interesting that when I was a race official for asphalt oval on a 1/10 mi., no matter how many karts we started, “12” was the magic number of finishers, usually.
If you are getting lapped at a national race, probably time to go back to regionals or club racing. Nothing to do with the leaders being unable to lap people cleanly.
They have started 80 or so before at NCMP for the RoboPong. Bit different situation but not a huge problem.
Why is 40 karts more dangerous than 36? SuperNats starts 40+. And there are barriers there…
On a 1m00s laptime, in a 25 min. race, the leaders would be lapping any karts slower than an average of 3s/lap down on time. While that’s an immense gap in raw speed, it’s easier to imagine a group of people with an off, and then battling vs. cooperating being that far off the pace…In the old 100cc DD days, some would simply pull off once they knew they couldn’t win…I’m more of the “battle to the end” internal wiring… What differential do you think is too great, and more importantly, why?
I agree that lapped traffic is a risk to the leaders, but I don’t think that we should eliminate that risk. Why do you? Just curious, no animus.
Keep in mind I’m speaking purely based on a national racing mindset since that’s the race in question.
No one is getting lapped purely from battling and slowing themselves down. 99% of the time someone is getting lapped because they’ve crashed or they are way off the pace on pure speed. Both of those instances the lapped kart has no chance anyway, their race is effectively over and they are only in the race to disrupt the leaders. Might as well remove them and keep the racing upfront clean.
Plus, I pity the driver who accidentally gets in the way of the leaders where some of these drivers are spending $15k+ on a weekend of national racing. You’re likely to get a good ear full in the scale line and maybe worse.
If you are 3 seconds slower than the leaders at a national race you shouldn’t be out there. I know it sucks, but if you average that far off the pace you are totally out of your depth and should be getting quality seat time in regional or club races before coming to a national event. And often, the drivers getting lapped with that pace deficit are not the most predictable or controlled and I’ve seen many accidents happen where the lapped kart suddenly makes a move or takes a line that’s unexpected and ends up having contact with the leaders. At that point it’s a safety issue.
If we had proper licensing this wouldn’t even be a conversation because someone without the necessary experience wouldn’t even be allowed to that level of event.
For club racing and some regional series I think it’s more acceptable to allow lappers to keep racing since the stakes are much lower, everyone is learning, and the field spread can be much wider.
I can’t agree more. SWS endurance races with 50+ karts were always quite the experience if you qualified in the midfield. Especially in tracks where they were lenient with contacts. There was a really thin line between gaining 5 positions in a single corner or being crashed out with a concussion in lap 1. It usually gets better after a few laps, but still very chaotic. Not to mention that most of your driving is trying to efficiently overtake backmarkers (which is fun nonetheless).
Biggest fields I’ve been in is 25 and that’s not enough to be cray cray. 35 seems like a good #, and I love it when you have to drive smart through the slower guys. Makes the races so much more dynamic when the leaders aren’t given clean air to run away with it.
Then again I do closed wheel well so less of a consequence when you need to lean on a guy.
Didn’t know I was going to spark something so controversial 
30-40 seems fine with me if they are on the same pace, but as TJ mentioned if we are talking a field of any size with totally different levels of pace and the leaders catch the back markers it’s a bit much for me.
This isn’t IMSA multi class racing. The leaders shouldn’t have to navigate any back markers.
The insurance specs used to be 1 kart per 100ft of track. Pitt Race was 46, NCMP was more depending on config, Daytona was less - all was relevant. That kindly of got blown away starting with Robopong and then SuperNats I’d say
But but this is the fun part. Imo. (If you are behind the leaders a bit). And it separates the smart experienced guys from the noobs. The leaders who know their stuff use that to their advantage or make decisions that minimize the potential damage to their lead to the trailing dudes (aka, me).
Rental racer perspective without expensive car/kart to worry about. Or winning to worry about for that matter, just funsies.
There’s no greater joy than doing what TJ taught me about, aka “Putting a pick” on the dudes behind you, using the lappers to frustrate the advance of the guys you actually racing.
