How to improve BSR electric race karts?

Keeps getting better the longer you watch! It kinda messes with your brain watching it.

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That is very cool! (downright cold)

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Winter race with ERC driver Martins Sesks:

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Iā€™m kinda new to karting but in the past I was very much into RC planes. Back in 2008 I started to convert my planes into EP. Some planes have a wing span of 72ā€. Those were usually flown with 26-40cc 2 stroke engines.

Lipo batteries were expensive back then, so were the branded motors and electronic speed controllers. EP was not popular at all.

But when the price of batteries started to tumble, many got into EP. Nowadays 90% - 95% of the RC guys are into EP.

With EP, itā€™s possible to get more performance out of our planes. Much more than ICE ones. For the standard sized planes it was not possible to get a 1:1 power to weight ratio on ICE. Despite EP being heavier, it was fun to see the plane pull verticals with ease. Almost unlimited verticals.

It all boils down to cost.

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This is a good look at what these karts drive like. The fellas driving appear to be moto racers and are quite competent.

This is whats missing from the Ekarts I drive in the SC leagueā€¦ breadth of power. These things pull and keep pulling. The power and accel are impressive and it looks very raceable. The complaint I have with the ekarts I drive at SC is that since you top out so quickly, you dont get the run. Here, that isnā€™t the case.

It would be interesting to see a Norberg caliber driver extract the max out of one of these and see how deep heā€™d drive it EOS.

Is EP refering to lithium cell batteries? Current battery tech is the only weak link in e-karts. Once that hurdle is crossed, the days of ICE karts are numbered.

Given the magnitude & instantaneous nature of the torque, would it it not make sense to orient the motor output gear & axle final drive on the inside rather than outside where the axle is more prone to bending?

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I donā€™t have any issue with electric karts, but they remind me of vegetarian imitationsā€”itā€™s never quite the real thing. That said, there are plenty of vegetarian dishes that are amazing in their own right. Similarly, electric karts could offer something unique. Iā€™d love to see a 4WD kart with two hub motors up front.

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For what itā€™s worth the motocross main stream media guys are really getting on board with the electric motocrossers. Itā€™s really blowing up in that space, which frankly often leads things powersports related. One big problem in adoption which came up recently is that racing bodies have seemed to have had some last minute influence exerted on them by traditional manufacturers to exclude the electric competition (that last link is to a very well done, and fascinating, documentary about the Stark Varg, which is the leading electric moto bike).

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The industry resistance to e-MX is driven by the same motivation that pushed 4 strokes: profits. High output 4 stroke MX motors have more moving, wearing parts that require frequent service. Parts sales are the primary profit stream or the manufacturers, not unit sales, because of their easier-to-swallow price markup. If you bought every part composing a single model unit, the cumulative retail cost would multiply its price nearly 10-fold.

e-Motors are a performance & economic game changer that will have a Darwinian level shakeup on the industry when they are allowed to enter the market. Wonā€™t really be able to stop the signal once somebody solves the storage side of the e-equation.

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If Iā€™ve noticed anything about karting over time Iā€™d say itā€™s these two things.

Mx is not a great reference point on what might work or not.
Racers generally donā€™t consider TCO in their racing decisions. They really should, but they donā€™t.

Karting is itā€™s own ecosystem for sure, but some of the top engine packages in the sport from the 80ā€™s to 2010ā€™s, especially in the US, were directly from moto manufactures (Honda, Yamaha) if not actual motocross engines. And today at least one of the top KZ manufacturers TM, is a moto company. Those seem like pretty big influences. :slight_smile:

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Would be funny if Yamaha releases their own KZ engines(which I wish ngl)

Another thing too keep in mind is that, even if the battery problem is solved, & demand shifts because of the increased capability, thereā€™s still the issue of source generation sufficiency & concomitant delivery infrastructure required to support mass demand, neither of which are viable in the US at the moment. Karts might actually be front runners in the shift to electric if the next-gen batteries are physically (& economically) scalable to serve a niche market.

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In the case of the BSR Power Unit, we maintain a 1:1 alignment with the kart chassis specifications for each specific class, making no modifications. This approach allows the existing industry to adopt our technology with zero changes, which is why BSR technology is the most sought-after globallyā€”it can be installed on any existing chassis without modifications. If a particular class originally has the gear positioned externally, BSR has designed it to match that specification.

In the future, various modifications may be possible, but based on our experience, they currently donā€™t make a significant difference. For now, itā€™s not a critical consideration.

Thatā€™s an interesting perspective, and I appreciate the analogy! Let me offer a counterpoint to consider:

While electric karts might initially feel like a ā€œvegetarian imitationā€ of traditional gas karts, theyā€™re actually more like a culinary innovation that opens up entirely new flavors and experiences rather than trying to replicate the original. Electric motors deliver instantaneous torque and unparalleled precision in power delivery, which combustion engines simply canā€™t match. This creates opportunities for driving dynamics that were never possible before.

For example, your idea of a 4WD kart with dual hub motors upfront is a perfect showcase of what electric karts uniquely offer. With individual motor control, you could enable advanced features like torque vectoring, allowing the kart to optimize grip and agility dynamically in ways that would be impossible with mechanical systems. Electric technology isnā€™t limited by traditional constraintsā€”it can redefine what a kart can be.

So while gas karts have their legacy and charm, electric karts are already evolving into something distinct and exciting, offering their own ā€œamazing dishesā€ in the world of motorsport. Itā€™s not about imitation; itā€™s about reinvention. And who doesnā€™t love discovering a new favorite? :blush:

Thatā€™s a great point, and I completely agreeā€”scaling infrastructure to support widespread electric adoption is a major challenge. However, youā€™re absolutely right that karts are uniquely positioned as front runners in the transition to electric. Hereā€™s why:

  • Low Energy Demand: Compared to electric cars, karts require significantly smaller batteries, making them less dependent on large-scale infrastructure. This allows for quicker adoption in localized environments like tracks and recreational facilities.
  • Niche Market Scalability: Karts are an ideal testing ground for next-gen battery technologies. If these technologies prove viable in kartsā€”balancing performance, cost, and scalabilityā€”they could pave the way for broader adoption in other sectors.
  • Self-Contained Ecosystem: Karting facilities could operate with independent energy solutions, like solar or small-scale renewable setups, to support charging without needing extensive grid upgrades. This offers a practical way to sidestep the current infrastructure bottleneck in the U.S.

Karts arenā€™t just a niche marketā€”theyā€™re a proof of concept for how electric mobility can work in a controlled, scalable environment. If we get it right here, it could set the stage for broader adoption in motorsport and beyond.

It amazes me that karts are not used more widely to develop electric power train and autonomous concepts.

Or maybe they are and I just havenā€™t seen it.

Either way, Merry Christmas everyone.

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BSR kart technology is used in various applications such as boats, drones, autonomous go-karts, motorcycles, and more. It is exported to 40 countries worldwide for diverse purposes.

Additionally, some projects are not publicly disclosed for various reasonsā€”sometimes due to confidentiality and other times because we are unaware of the final product in which the technology is used.

Iā€™m curious about the traction control strategy used in an EV kart. As this is very critical for EV cars, unlike a ICE engine, an EV will spin the tire to the moon without active traction control.

But in a kart, how do you detect rear tire slip?

And just an idea, if you have 2 motor driving the rear tires (split axle), you could implement an e-diff, kart will no longer require solid axle, and this could be a game changer in my opinion.

Simplest traction control solution is front vs rear comparative wheel speed sensors.