KartPulse KartKraft Throwdown Season 1

Other Motorsports Incl Sim Racing
163

Thanks TJ.

If you will recall, in a prior build, I got stuck at 56.10.

The issue was the tire change and what it did to the entry to the two 180 cutback turns (4 and 5?).

I too had issues where I just was not able to get the kart to behave on entry.

What I ended up doing, which is likely technically incorrect, is rolling the corners. Specifically I am trying to slow down just enough to roll the corner at max lateral grip without sliding. I then try to time this such that the throttle application coincides with the mass coming off the nose as I release. Despite the fact that throttle is gradual, it’s also very careful in it’s application. The timing of throttle is key because if you are slightly early or late, your revs are dead.

Instead of a hard brake + rotate, I am braking lighter a bit earlier and carrying it like a trail. I release brake and blend in throttle VERY carefully.

The idea is ultra gentle high speed roll. It works for me and gets me sub 21 for s2.

Ideally, a later brake which catches rubber and aggressively rotates kart as back wheels grab rubber works even better but it’s not as repeatable for me.

That which is separating me from the best drivers is s3. I can get down to 16.0x there. It’s just not reliable. While I have a good line, there’s more to it than line.

My fast s3 feel different. There’s a loose, free and slippery quality to them that, I think, begins with how you toss it in from below. I know that I need to moderate Bobby corner to figure this out.

I think, like everywhere else on track, the fast line can’t be rushed. The preceding chicane (6-7) is a great example of that. Earlier give up allows you to accel dramatically through. It’s likely the same with Bobby entry.

Also, try 9-62 gearing.

“It’s pretty interesting how effective flicking the wheel can be in the fast corners.”

I have been trying to tone it down. The game seems to respond well to my handsiness but it should be possible to do all this “correctly”.

164

Was able to improve my time at PFI, most of which seemed to come from the last sector. I got what felt like an OK run through all of the twisty bits, but have been really slamming the last curb, and that seems to work well if you hit it just right.

I think the disadvantage of using a game pad is that my inputs seem noticeably slower compared to Dom’s onboard. Either way, I was surprised to see an improvement of almost two tenths over my previous best.

image

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165

Nice work. What gearing?

Any clue what your s3 time was? I’ll bet it was faster than what’s shown. For me the game leaderboard is wrong. Sector 2 is correct but they always add to s3 and subtract from s1. I think the start finish is actually off. It’s dramatically off. My actual s3 sector time on that lap was 16.080 not 16.34 and s1 was 18.978 not 18.85. So, be aware that the leaderboards are a bit wonky.

For the gearing I am running, your times look good. You can take 1 tenth off easy and get 19.00 S1.

166

This was with the 9-62 gearing you recommended above. Only other change vs. your setup was to go out to .28 or .3 front width to help with turn in. Not sure about the sector times, but I’ll try to pay attention to that and report back.

167

Here’s something for you to go to school on. Laps from this am session.

S1: you want to shoot for 18.9-19.1
S2: 20.9-21.0
S3: 16.00-16.10

You are very close. You are good across all 3 sectors. Small things will get you to 56.00.

Here’s the sector times from my OK laps this am. You will see a common thread. 2 good, 1 so-so sector.

56.198:
18.896
20.909
16.303

56.230:
19.146
20.801
16.283

56.234:
19.143
21.020
16.071

56.247:
19.041
20.987
16.219

Without seeing your laps, the common thing is not turning in early enough for chicane (6-7?).

168

How is it that you are able to see your sector times like at the beginning of the video?

This is definitely helpful, as it points out a couple areas where I should be able to carry more speed by cleaning up my line a bit. Not to come back to this as a crutch, but I think it’s a bit more difficult to accurately control my inputs with the gamepad, specifically rate of input. This causes general inconsistencies, and also over-rotation mid-corner since I’m having to apply more wheel.

I’ll keep digging, and try to upload a replay so you can see first hand.

I appreciate the tips, Dom!

169

You have to be in Face-Off mode of Time Trial. HUD On. Show splits etc. In minimal mode, the splits don’t show. I calculate them after.

I’d imagine it’s very hard being precise with a controller. I have no idea how you are able to get around the track at all. My controller skills are pretty good in FPS but there is no way I could drive on one.

170

It’s a couple days later, and things are getting a bit faster. Looking at the aggregate laps of the day, I’ve managed to get better in S3 and less spastic in S2. I seem to have regressed in S1.

The early turn-in at the chicane on back straight is hit or miss, for me, still. It’s hugely important in generating big speed into Bobby corner. If you want to see a sub 40s mark entering S3, this needs to be early apexed. It’s hard to do, but the fastest version I saw took both kerbs.

S3 is more consistent, and I think I have begun to be able to repeat something decent. The truly fast ones, the 16.0X, are still rare. Managing speed, rather than just hucking it into the bowl, has become the order of the day.

Here’s a few notable laps from today.The fastest laps have slowest S1. :face_vomiting: If I run enough laps, I think I’ll manage to have the sector salad work out, eventually. Enjoy!


56.182
S1: 19.018
S2: 20.868
S3: 16.295

56.164
S1: 19.010
S2: 20.970
S3: 16.183

56.149
S1: 19.162
S2: 20.920
S3: 16.065

56.092
S1: 19.104
S2: 20.938
S3: 16.048

171

It’s not official yet, but…

55.996 (Dirty)
S1: 18.914
S2: 20.837
S3: 16.245

This happened while I wasn’t looking. I finally got to the point on this track where the Stig could kick in. And kick in he did, until I woke up and realized that this was happening. I immediately started making a mess of things, and ultimately dirtied this lap on the way out.

I knew that, given enough time, this would happen. A couple of days ago, I was feeling like I had run out of talent. Then, yesterday, S3 started to click. And here we are. So the little pep talk I gave myself about incremental improvements and perseverance was helpful.

Ironically, S3 is crap in this lap, but the recent improvement has led to lower average laptimes and thus, greater confidence. This allowed me to zone out and let the Stig* take over. Yay!

Ok, now to go finish this…

*Stig: This is what I call the state when you are mentally otherwise occupied and have devoted most of your attention to whatever other thing you are thinking about. The driving just happens and you are supervising this other “you” driving along. Also, you are its eyes, so it’s an active disengagement. You are still present.

Basically, the Stig showing up probably represents being “In the zone”.

:checkered_flag:

EDIT: Just got done lapping. Zowie. I am now running what used to be my fast laps over and over again. My average laptime has plummeted overnight. Most of my laps are falling sub 46.5 and are bunched up around 46.1 - 46.3. I just ran two laps that beat my previous lap without great difficulty and there literally were no bad laps. Oddly, I appeared to be working in pairs. If I landed a 56.32, the next lap was likely a 56.3x. This happened repeatedly.

I don’t know if it was the act of breaking 56 dirty or just the culmination of lots of laps, but, I found control and sensitivity I did not have 48 hrs ago. The session I just ran was all me this time, no Stig today, which makes it even more interesting.

56.067
S1: 18.978
S2: 20.899
S3: 16.190

56.036
S1: 19.160
S2: 20.819
S3: 16.057

@Muskabeatz Nice work. I see you making your way up right behind me. Very close now.

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172

Thanks, and nice job on your progress! I’ve been able to run some great times in each sector (running in face-off with sector times is helpful), but find it difficult to consistently lap near my best theoretical. I’ve got the splits for a 56.0xx, but just haven’t been able to piece it all together.

Sector 2 is most challenging for me due to the hairpins. The controller doesn’t let me apply as much steering input (both rate of input and total range), so I’m having to use the brakes to get the kart to rotate just a hair more on entry, but it’s tough to execute consistently.

I haven’t really put in many laps lately, so I’m sure some of it will just come with time and practice.

173

@Muskabeatz @tjkoyen I have a thought for you and TJ re sector 2 and the switchbacks. Specifically the 2nd one.

It occurred to me that the driven line the AI take is different than what you’d normally do in a 180 turn.

Normally, I go straight down edge of track, turn in and apex at the middle, apex out more or less the opposite. Basic 180.

If, however, you rotate the angle of the turn within the turn, interesting things start to happen as you find the AI rubber. I can’t draw for crap but sorta like this: (imagine those two arcs are aligned such that you are apexing normal-ish in same spot for both arcs, correctly).

image
414D3544-1522-442D-825F-A9EA758159EC.jpeg3024×4032 2.15 MB

Play around with this a bit. I was experiencing a very hooked up exit that was very fast.

My drawing makes no sense but changing the approach such that I was basically using the entire length of the track between the corners to get across before turning at the end. This makes you apex differently and ride the rubber out differently.

Because you are pointing away from the turn as you approach it, a gentle brake and direction change to get you on the path to powering out. I know it seems wrong but try it.

174

I’ve found that the kart in the sim really does not enjoy long periods of loading. The second to last corner at Geelong and the two hairpins at PFI are where it’s most noticeable. Any time you try to drive a smooth arc around these corners, something wonky happens and it overloads super easily and slides. Gotta be something slightly off in the tire model or something, where it never feels like the tire takes a “set”, it just builds load until it goes over the traction limit.

Dom your way of attacking those corners makes sense in that regard, because you’re sort of shocking the kart into rotation at some point in the corner, not loading it for as long. I’ve been working on it similarly, though in reverse. Rather than early apexing and making a big rotation on the end of the corner, I’ve been turning in really aggressively and trying to get the kart straight as soon as possible, so late apexing it a lot. That gives the kart less time to overload and slide. It’s the most consistent approach I’ve found for those kinds of corners.

175

I find this is always the case. As I get closer to “ding” the optimal and the completed laps narrow a bit but instantly widen after I ding.

I think what happens is while we are capable of running each sector individually very well, it takes time to develop the confidence to run 3/3 fast.

When you ding, everything that was hard becomes easier, somehow. Ie last night running 56.1-56.3 for majority of laps after I dirtied the 55.99. (These were my “fast” laps before). So, your optimals start to widen again as your expectations change.

So, very specifically, last night looked like this: 2 ultra fast laps (56.00). A couple 56.1. The vast majority were 56.2-56.4. A couple 56.8-9.

As compared to a day earlier where I ran mainly 56.4-56.9 with only a few 56.2 and maybe one or two 56.1.

The mind is a weird thing. Nothing really changed in 24 hrs other than getting confirmation that I was indeed capable of going sub 56. But yet now I am faster overall.

176

Tj,
I found this “set” you speak of in the turn I was describing. It hooks up noticeably. It’s another one of these hidden “power lines” associated with the AI rubber. It’s there in every turn, it requires a certain trajectory and speed. I’ve only just found this one so it’s not really repeatable yet. I’ll get one and film it for you.

177

Things got interesting last night as I found new speed. Nothing stuck from a full lap perspective, but I went Purple in every sector over the session. In my fastest lap, I was carrying so much additional speed into S3, the kart got ahead of me in the bowl and I crashed.

Specifically, I started to monster S1. I ran 18.8’s repeatedly and rarely went slower than 19.1. Reviewing the laps, I was surprised at how consistently low I was there every lap.

This consistency led to me finding new speed thorough each corner of the entire track.

Here are the “best” sectors from last night (that I could identify at 2am):

S1: 18.886
S2: 20.776
S3: 16.016

As a new optimal that’s 55.678. I’d say the grinding is turning into honing.

On an unrelated note, here’s Steve Klassen being a huge badass. He is 54. This gives me hope as I just turned 50. Maybe I should start hucking myself off things again.

This is the run. Check out the first cliff drop.


What an amazing guy. He goes from the top, because it wouldn’t sit right with him to start lower, and who knows, this could be his last one. He ain’t going out the easy way.

Edit: I took the day off to chase the 55.X goal. So far, I manged to beat my previous best laptime twice. However, we are talking thousandths.

My first “ding” was 56.010. I figured that my next ding was gonna be 55.X. “I kinda can’t go any lower from here, and stay in 56, can I?”

As it turns out, Yup! I managed to do the impossibly cool laptime of:

56.001

Edit: @Muskabeatz [quote=“Muskabeatz, post:172, topic:4168”]
Sector 2 is most challenging for me due to the hairpins.
[/quote]

One of the Devs was saying that Console controllers have a high level of filtering by default. That’s under settings and the higher the filtering, the less “sensitive” the car is to inputs. Take a look to see what it defaults to for you and maybe mess with it to see if changing it affects things.

178

Crazy amount of effort here. Nice work.

179

55.964
Cage%20Fighter

Well, that took two attempts and about 6 months, it feels like, but it’s done. A mistake at the exit of S1, gave me free reign to “just drive”. So, I did what I could with S2 and then banged out as good an S3 as I am capable of. And, it was enough,… just.

S1: 18.930
S2: 21.022
S3: 16.012

Pretty solid S1. I bogged going into S2, which added a bit of time to what would likely have been sub 21s run. S3 was bang-on. As good as I can do, at least. So overall, a decent lap, but nothing amazing. But, that’s how I got here, banging these sectors out over and over again, until my mistakes became less of a big deal.

My optimal is 55.65 these days so, despite thinking I was gonna call it a day at 55, I am gonna see if I can get top ten global.

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180

S3 lights up…

Wellp, the “ding” did what it always does… I am now faster, again, overall.

What is now significant is that I am officially sub 16s for S3. This is legit quick. It’s not repeatable at will yet, however.

S3 is always a bit of a crapshoot, but I now understand how to make speed through there and were/how to get on gas. This requires a great deal of patience and you have to be careful with throttle. Too early on throttle doesn’t necessarily feel wrong, but when you delay it a touch and do it correctly, things suddenly get fluid and fast. This is one of those places where going flat out is slower than carefully feeding in throttle.

So now we have all 3 sectors in the fast category. Sub 19 for S1, sub 21 for S2 and sub 16 for S3.

Given this, I am seeing more and more laps where 2/3 sectors are at my best. I am getting very close to having all 3 wired to the point that I will be able to land a truly fast lap.

Here’s a new faster lap. This moved me to 13 from 15 globally but no change USA.


S1: 18.886
S2: 20.999
S3: 16.073

All this lapping is affecting my normal driving, apparently. My wife keeps telling me that this hotlapping is making me a worse driver IRL. I don’t think she is a fan of using “all” of the road. I should stop trying to apex everything. :weary:

Edit: stuff just got interesting. I mentioned in discord that I might take a run at Tanguys time. I was informed that if I were to beat his time, a fellow racer would donate $20 to a charity. So, I’m gonna match that and go for it. So there’s a whole $40 on the line for charity now. Wish me luck!

12/17/19: The Charity thing got in Tanguy’s craw and he rage-lapped just enough to set a new fastest time of 55.45. The problem with Aliens is their vast reservoir of talent, which allows them to kick everyone else’s butt. What takes me a month takes him 2 hrs. Well, Bleep him anyways since I decided I’m racing for 3rd, not 1st.

In any case, progress. Today I ran 3 back to back 56.00. That’s a first, to be consistent like that, at the pointier end of my time-range possibilities. Shortly thereafter, I made another small step forwards. 55.900.

S1: 18.956
S2: 21.005
S3: 15.939

12/18: The new faster lap didn’t register because of a server hiccup. Don’t care since I am now running much, much faster.

It started with running 3 back to back 56.00 laps. I then proceeded to run 55.9, 56.1, 56.1, 55.9. This would have been impossible 48hrs ago.

As my average laptime plummets, the likelihood for a podium lap increases. I called it a night after running the first two sectors 18.88, 20.88 and then crashing in 3rd. That’s on pace for a .65.-.75.

I don’t know what I’ll land at, eventually. It’s going to be lower than I thought, however. I keep finding a bit more speed with each ding. Tanguys optimal is now .2. Is it feasible to shoot for a .5? As of now, it seems hugely unlikely but look at the progression I have experienced. I keep being pleasantly surprised. I may find that I am capable of this, not sure. Time will tell.

Evening: 55.875


S1: 19.055
S2: 20.802
S3: 16.018
A few hundredths off third, now. Maybe tomorrow.
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181

55.797 US #3, GLB #9


S1: 18.872
S2: 20.900
S3: 16.025

Got US #3 and top 10 global!

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182

Do you happen to know the actual times at PFI