Hi
Is anyone know the laptimes diference between mg red and mg yellow on a TAG engine ?
Thanks
Probably 0.5 or so depending on track length.
.5-1 in my experience. Depends on track
How about the drop off between the two for something like a TAG or an 80 shifter? Obviously, the drop off will happen quicker and be more substantial with the Yellows, but can anyone attempt to quantify the difference between the two in terms of numbers of heat cycles and deltas? If someone was just screwing around and not racing, would they actually be faster on the reds than they yellows after a certain number of heat cycles because of degradation?
I ask because I’ve pretty much only run on softer compound tires and a couple times now I have seen a true and full 2 second a lap improvement from switching from not-past-the-wear-dots-but-cycled-50-times-tires to nearly new ones. I’m wondering if one is really pounding laps over a few months and cycling a single set of tires that much if the harder compounds actually hold up better than the softer, but don’t have my own personal experience there to know.
It’s a true your mileage may very situation.
Generally assuming your track is in reasonable condition, the reds are going to degrade exponentially faster than the blues (red, yellow).
Neither tire is hard enough to last for half a year of track days. In most cases the more heat cycles a tire experiences the faster the lap time drop off over a session.
Based on what you shared you should see a significant difference in performance drop off between the reds and yellows over multiple track days. The reds won’t be as fast but will last longer. How much longer is really tricky to say.
When you heat cycle a tire and then leave it for weeks or months it also affects the tires lifespan. Oils in the rubber are activated by the heat and come to the tread surface, and as this process is repeated the tire becomes drier and drier and less responsive in the way we expect. You’ll often see a used tire that’s sat on a shelf for a bit to have a rainbow purple sheen to it, another sign that the tire is on its way to being trashed.
This isn’t universally true but I like how you think In regard to heat cycles AND tread wear, not just one or the other.
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That cuts to what I’m wondering. With a little searching I came across a comment from tjkoyen that after improper storage his olders reds were 1.5 seconds slower than some newer ones. So not quite the 2 seconds I’ve seen a couple times from yellows, but pretty close. So I guess, the bottom line is that eventually an old and crusty tire is an old and crusty tire, either way.
It would still be cool to see a chart that shows drop off rates between tires and if/when there’s a convergence in times between them during a lifecycle (to see if the yellows catch down to the reds). Maybe I’ll just grab some reds and see how it goes in terms of aging (both in time and cycles) vs my experience with the yellows.
As a side note, I find it really humbling to ponder things like, ‘Wow, these older tires are 1.5-2 seconds slower than newer ones’. Driver skill is definitely a thing, but crickey, even in a club race a driver isn’t going to be able to make up for or ‘just drive around’ that kind of deficit. A person may be fast or faster than someone else, but ultimately there’s a big reliance on good equipment. (a genius observation, I know)
Old 50 cycle tires are exactly 0.0 seconds slower at our track. I had to kill the wear dots on my last set of MG Reds before they slowed down.
CrocIndy - are you talking 206, or something else. I can’t see how that’s possible for any other class. I’ve seen this behavior at two tracks I frequent regularly around here with my TAG.
And furthermore, is this true for Laps 1-3 or only true later in the run for the older tires?
Definitely runs counter to what I see on my Cadet around a 41 second track with very worn, relatively low-grip asphalt… somewhere around 8 heat cycles he’s usually starting to give up .25/lap or so vs new tires, that gradually increases to about .75-1.0 seconds by maybe heat cycle 15 and then they tend to stay there until worn out.
But you might be talking about heavy senior LO206 on a freshly paved, longer track in a hotter climate.
It is 206. And yes I am talking brand new out of the wrapper onward 375#+ 206. It was the same before we got repaved as it was after we got repaved. I don’t know if you would call it a longer track. It was low 30 seconds and now most of the labs are mid-40s to '50s.
No wonder why I see so many 206 drivers talking about freeing up their karts. They are truly over-tired, apparently. Seems like for driver development and competition they’d want a harder tire, but what do I know.
Most front running New Castle guys put new rubber on every week or two.
It’s all track and situation dependent.
Interesting. The only thing I can guess is that some tracks get the tires hot enough to where it’s actually damaging to the tire, whereas some other tracks don’t??
I had a new set of MG reds that I used for one day at one track, 3 days at another then they sat wrapped inside over the winter, went purple in the stacked field in the spring and then a practice day at a third track before they fell off by around a 1+ seconds.
So basically 6 full days of 206 (320 and 360).
Some tracks are ‘easy’ on tires and others aren’t. The reasons for that are too numerous to list out fully.
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My wallet loves the one set a year I buy for club. We’re definitely lucky
This is the impression I got. I was kinda surprised that they aren’t on a compound like the rentals, but a slight bit softer, because lighter.
The 13hp gx390 totally are better off on reds on race chassis, tho, imho.
But, that over-tired factor does give lo206 it’s excellent choo-choo train racing. So, I’m torn.
I was bummed the margay league didn’t work out because those seemed to be very long lived tires.
In my opinion the MG Red is the best tire for 206 that I have driven but I understand the arguments for both. The Vega reds for ckna are very soft and nice to drive but not the best for racing imo. I’ve driven a lot with the MG Oranges as well which are actually designed for rentals and they are super hard. Unless it is super hot and grippy in the summer they are terrible to drive and really easy to slide into someone making a pass. Just my thoughts
I’d really have to try it someday to understand. I’ve never felt like I’m under gripped on hard tires at 9hp. It’s probably just a whole other thing with the additional grip, racing wise.