So I had a local sprint Club race day yesterday running KZ2. I’m never going to be fast in this class but do it because it’s fun and good practice for my road racing. And I’ve only ever known shifters - because that’s where I started running road/long circuit (where I am competitive in my stock class), so for the moment have no interest in running non-gearbox. It is however frustrating being constantly flogged - I’m 2 seconds off the front runners in this KZ2 sprint class, which is basically everyone.
But, I am circa 25-35 years older (or more) than the other drivers. I’m a few months shy of 60, and they’re 35 and younger. Am I being a bit harsh on myself and need to be realistic? Yes, of course there are amazing older driver examples out there who are just as good as anyone. But for the average older driver, what should they realistically expect as a spread to the younger adult when running gearbox on a sprint track? Should I be chasing one second (over circa 44 seconds per lap) or should I be closer again? I would add that running KZ2 is much tougher than road racing. My heart beat can get pretty close to 160 bpm and I’m absolutely destroyed at the end of the day (a good night sleep awaits). But still love it - just want to be more competitive while being realistic.
I don’t know the exact time delta, but I am 35 myself and I race with some guys around 50 and on their day they can be as fast as myself but not consistently. I find the biggest place I make up time compared to them is on the brakes, which for you coming from road would be a big adaptation. There is a lot of time to be made up and lost by braking too early. A KZ kart brakes can stop so fast, and that’s where I would focus when you’re training. Try going deeper, even if it causes some spins. My focus in KZ is taking advantage of the things a KZ does best, stopping and accelerating.
BUT attaining and maintaining the required level of fitness becomes exponentially harder. Especially if you’re driving shifters. Ironically that’s why I went road racing because I wanted to race shifters, but the required fitness was more inline with my, eh… abilities. I’m not implying that you don’t have to be fit for road racing, but it’s easier to be in the hunt and survive the weekend if you’re someone that’s not pounding laps and a gym on the regular.
Remember that fast driving is more about programming and planning, less so reflexes.
If you want to go down a bit of a rabbit hole in heart rate, we’ve got you covered.
35 y/o here, and someone who has plenty of wins in recent years. I regularly race against a fella who is 20+ years my senior, and there’s never any doubt that he’ll be a threat for the win. The guys is fit for his age, doesn’t drink alcohol, and is in a kart very regularly. Not to mention he’s been competing at a high level for many years. I can recall a few others from back in my Tag days (15 years ago) that were 60+ and in the hunt for wins against us Senior drivers.
Take the approach of goaling in smaller steps. I think it’s reasonable to shoot for a 1 sec delta to the fast guys, it may just take some work and dedication. Sprint racing is also an order of magnitude more physical than road racing, as well as being a different driving style.
It’s funny that at 46 years old I look at these 30 year old’s coming into masters as “these fucking kids”.
I don’t feel like I’ve given up any speed ultimately to the younger crowd, but I recognize that I’m already at a place where I have to work on myself and my conditioning quite a bit more than I used to in order to keep pace.
I agree with the others, take an approach to working on incremental improvements in the shifter discipline and you should be able to work your way to the pace level of those around you.
I am 48 and in good shape (ride mountain bikes 3-4 times a week intensly). I am more or less as fast as ever. I have less to prove, and am doing it more for fun and the experience now, but I feel sharp. what I might have lost due to age I feel I have gained in experience. I raced tillotson sr a few round ago at Orlando and had the second fastest lap in the final, only bested by Enzo Vidmontiene by a few tenths.
In reality probably am a little slower due to age, we all probably are. That said, I like to operate like I am not so don’t afford myself that excuse.
46 y/o here. For me shifter karting is good for health because you must exercise to be in decent shape to drive the thing
If you dont know where you are missing speed wise - ask your fellow (faster )kz driver to help and drive in front of you. Say that you are trying to figure out where you / kart is loosing time. Lead first - ask him to follow, warm up your tyres, increase your speed incrementally but not full send. When you have hot tyres, wave him to pass and follow. Now - Full send for few corners. Advice him beforehand to look back now and then so that you can observe what line he is using, what his kart is doing. No point if he goes full send for 5 mins and leaves you behind - you cant see what he/kart is doing. If his kart goes like on rails and yours is sliding - you must change your setup. Your kart should have the same grip as the faster guy has. If it doesnt - he has better setup. You can adjust any kart to be fast BUT you must do A LOT of testing
I find as I get older I don’t necessarily lose much pace, but I do tend to make a bit more mistakes or it takes more focus to not make mistakes. This weekend I felt more physically fit than ever, even though I’ve done pretty much nothing on that front save for a few neck workouts to prepare. But at Trackhouse, I have gotten pretty beat up physically before when I was a bit younger, so I was concerned I would be in rough shape this past weekend with the added grip levels and more years on me, but I had zero issues physically. Maybe lifting toddlers all day everyday has its perks for karting fitness. But I’m only 33. There are still very fast guys racing into their 50s and even 60s sometimes, but I would imagine in KZ that would be a very high bar to achieve. Certainly not impossible to replicate the times of younger drivers, but would take a lot of dedication to fitness, health, and training. There is no fighting age or time in the long run; your body naturally will lose some reflex, flexibility, and strength, but if you stay sharp with a good diet and exercise, you certainly be as good as an out-of-shape 30 year old who doesn’t drive enough.
2 seconds is a fairly big chunk, but if you’re used to road racing that’s not so surprising to be off-pace in a sprint setting. It’s a far larger demand physically and mentally. To really know where the time is going, you need to look at the data. If a younger driver is carrying more apex speed than you, you have to try and replicate that. If you physically can’t do it because you’re not strong enough or your body can’t take the corner load, there’s your answer. If you CAN do it but just haven’t mastered the technique yet, then you can certainly get to that level with more testing and practice and coaching.
I made this graphic a long time ago as a rough depiction of how I view age with drivers.
This may not apply well but I’ll speak up since I have posted on here some.
I am 66 years old and road race motorcycles on road race tracks. I have raced karts in the past and expect to again soon. One of my bikes is a TZ250 which has very strong acceleration and braking.
The two things that affect me is not enough seat time and the fact that I do not have as strong as a “chase the rabbit” instinct as i used to have. When I have ran multiple practice sessions to work out brake markers and feel good/rested things still go well because i have confidence.
I don’t race fast karts so I can’t speak to the rigors of KZ but I don’t feel like my physicality gets in the way of my racing against young folk.
I imagine that for extremely demanding stuff that requires peak muscle development (ie sprinting) it’s a different story but for the endurance stuff I do and most definitely the sprint racing, age is a non-issue.
The primary thing is weight, which is of course harder to manage as we get past age 25 or so. Old and fat can’t win. But, neither can young and fat or young and super buff.
There was a gang of fellas 60+ that won a lot of the endurance races, beating the young guys. At the recent 6 hours of Hell, yours truly (54) outlasted Andre, my son, and at least three guys in their 30s that had to be visited by the paramedics for heat exhaustion bonk-outs (and we took the win thank you very much).
But, that falls into the “wisdom” camp, mainly, and us old guys aren’t gonna make the unforced error of thinking we are Superman and then paying a high price for it. We have learned that we aren’t bullet proof and manage stamina more carefully, I think. We have to.
What I have found is that age increases the recovery time from heavy physical activity. The rebound is longer. When I really get my ass kicked it hurts for a week now, as opposed to 1-2 days.
While it’s true that we start losing muscle mass as we age, it’s also true that we can still create muscle mass until the end. It’s just a lot more work as an uphill battle.
I would have to agree with mountain biking helping your stamina. I am 54 and don’t go to the gym, but I have a strech/tone session I do every morning and ride the bike about 3 times a week. I race KA with kids in their teens to guys that are older than me and I think my stamina is pretty good. I think my biggest hurdle to finishing higher in the standings is I think too much. Risk / reward calculations usually err to the side of playing it safe.
You see stickers that say something like “Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time!” on SCCA racecars regularly. Back in the mid 1990s when I was crewing for a guy at the SCCA Runoffs (National Championships) the winner of the Formula Atlantic race was 77 years old. I figure I have more than a few years left kart racing given that 206 karts are nowhere near as intense as FA.
I think on a technical level what happens is (at least in KZ) our precision drops off. Our brain knows this and builds in a buffer, so you really brake a little earlier than you think you did. Then you arrive at the corner slow and get on the gas too early, losing the rear laterally, and losing drive. All the little bits of precision loss add up.
Somehow, the math works out so that I’m 65. I never liked advanced mathematics… Anyhow, I find that being in some semblance of shape helps with concentration as races wear on, particularly if it’s hot. I started out with a combination of a kart that was not set up as well as it could have been and a lack of feel for how fast the kart could go around a corner. I’ve worked on improving the setup and especially tightening the loose nut behind the wheel down and have caught up to the back of the pack on a good day.
Once you’ve caught up to the pack, you can decide what moves are worth the risk. I played soccer for 30 years and we all had the thought that ‘I have to get up and go to work in the morning’ in the back of our minds. Not that it kept us from doing stupid things occasionally…
I talked to an internationally experienced masters driver last weekend, and he lamented the subconscious self preservation instinct that he feels has cost him half a second of pace relative to his younger rivals and his former self. He’s been racing for 40+ years. Now he’s 56 and races masters against mostly 35-40 year olds because all the older master drivers got tired of losing and quit. He finished last in a race this year and considered quitting himself. He said it was very tough psychologically to recover from that blow to his confidence. It was sad for me to imagine how he feels and imagine I’ll feel the same way in the future, but I encouraged him not to give up. I think we need to have more “grandmasters” divisions. We need to acknowledge that a 35 year old is not the same as a 55 year old.
Just glancing at CKNA Spring Nationals results between Legends (375lb, 50+) and Sr. Medium (365lb, 15+), the top five’s fastest laps were averaging ~48.2s and 47.4s, respectively. Masters (390lb, 35+) was closer to 48.4s.
For reference, JD Gunn ran a 47.9 in the Legends class and a 48.3 in Masters (he’s the first Legends driver I found in both classes, and he is top 10 in both). So that means if adding 15lbs adds 0.4, the Medium class should be about 0.3 faster. Instead, they 0.8.
Therefore, I have [in a horrible abuse of statistics by ignoring millions of variables] proven that 50+ drivers are 0.5 seconds slower than 15+ drivers.
