The SuperLeague at Supercharged Edison

Well done, Sir! :100:

Bear in mind, you weigh considerably more than me. I am all of 165lbs so your accomplishment needs to be viewed through that lens! Personally, I feel like the .2’s are when the lap has pretty much clicked, you just didn’t quite nail am apex, or you were a bit wide somewhere.

Yeesh. Let me know if you figure out how to disentangle effectively. :grinning:

That would be fun. I dream of either:

  1. A Superleague at speed 5
  2. The Supertrack
    :crossed_fingers:
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Fastest Lap

Drive with Dom

Race 10

Race 9

The Emerson College video post production guide comes to the rescue. My first attempt with the Gopro hero 360 cam did not film 360 footage. Now I know why. Thank you Emerson AV club!

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If interest in my videos is a gauge of Supercharged interest versus my usual shenanigans…



Pretty significant monthly change. 5X traffic.

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I brought an infrared temp sensor tonight to check the tires just for fun. When the karts hadn’t gone out all night the tires started ~70°F and took til almost the end of the race to heat up (first decent lap was lap 8). Coming back they’re at ~107°F in the front and ~97°F in the rear.

Second time out, after another group had their session, the tires hold temperature decently well, even though it’s sitting there for ~15 minutes before they go out again. Just before the next race started they were at ~83°F, which still slid a bit starting off. I burned my first 1.5 laps not really even going for times but just jerking back and forth heating them up again, and then got a decent start into the 2nd lap and the rest of the race felt great.

Going to pit from 2nd heat, the temperatures were about the same again as the first finish, regardless of the fact they started off from a higher temp, and had many more hot laps – so it seems there’s some upper bound on where you can expect the tire temp to be.

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Hi Don, thanks for the question. Yes, it’s quite a significant issue, or more of a buzzkill for many electric kart manufacturers on larger tracks because karting quickly reaches top speed, and it’s like hitting a wall. This creates a discomforting feeling for somewhat experienced drivers and a sense of limitation.

What BSR does in such cases is that we create specific power curves for a particular track, where power is proportionally extended in the last 10-20% of RPM, creating a feeling that the kart keeps accelerating, but never quite reaches the ultimate top speed. There’s always a sense that you can squeeze out that extra km/h, and that’s what the driver starts seeking, trying to nail the perfect exit, get into the corner faster, reduce wind resistance by tilting their head, and so on.

When it comes to larger tracks, especially outdoor ones, about 80% of the speed can be corrected with the right gear ratio, and the remaining 20% can be achieved with power curve modifications. This can always be done, but on large outdoor tracks, the feel of electric and internal combustion engines is somewhat different, where in some form, internal combustion has the advantage from a power perspective.

Outdoor tracks have higher average speeds and higher top speeds, and that’s where internal combustion engines are most efficient in terms of power. Meanwhile, electric power becomes less efficient. This means that for outdoor tracks, you often need a more powerful electric kart with a longer gear ratio, and then, with proper adjustments to the power curve, you can achieve a very satisfying never-ending feeling.

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Thanks Artis! I figured that there was more to it than just slapping a different gear on. That’s a helpful explanation.

Do facilities have the ability to do this on their own via a software package like Sodiscan? Or, would the kart manufacturer work with the kart facility to make a custom curve based on their facility?

IMG_3871

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I can’t tell if it’s ambient temp, track temp, or rubber build up…

But the track evolves a ton and keeps on evolving. I want to do a 1hr session and see what happens. I don’t know that I’ve seen it’s final form,

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I think it’s all of it, but I can’t measure the others :rofl:. I’m interested to see how higher ambient temperatures factor in next summer

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I think it was you who mentioned the air-con.

If you think about it, those karts must put off heat. The power systems that they plug into don’t seem to radiate heat or anything but I would imagine that some cooling is required, these being electric.

When we first roll out onto the green track, it’s slippery as heck, if the track has been sitting. I have noticed that over the course of 4 heats, back to back, on the practice sessions (maybe 15 karts) the track kept building grip. It also appears that if your division is 2nd half of night, you will always be faster.

It makes sense that it has to do with surface track temp. But, it also feels like rubber going down, although the tires are so firm, I have trouble seeing how they could be laying down enough grip from that alone.

So, it’s gotta be a combo. The hard Dunlops do leave some grip behind and the plywood surface takes on heat, I think.

I would offer that I have yet to have a kart that feels down on power. Have you experienced a “bad” kart @nikspeeds? Also, out of curiosity, do you have any gas kart experience?

Also, this painted plywood is awesome to kart on. It reminds me a bit of that story I linked about the wood track motorcycle racing back in the old days. (No comparison, danger wise… SC is extremely safe design).

Edison track is barely a year old (opened october iirc) and needs new paint:


Paint wearing off

Maybe they could also revisit lighting, ultimately. It would be better lit more colorfully and brighter in the shadowed, underpass areas.

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Final race of Season tonight!

Week 6/6 is upon us! Who will be our champion?

Michael and Brandon have been neck and neck, so they will likely be 1-2.

Marc is not safe from Andy and Alex who are tied.

With luck I could catch Andres but the real fight is with Icaro, as we are tied for 7th.

I will be more Ghandi and less Genghis should I come upon others tonight. I promise.

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The worst I had was one that was way out of alignment.

Evan (@buzzraces on YT) had one with an almost flat tire once that was sliding all over and Will let him make up the race.

Erick (@powershoteight3483 on YT) had one kart that was on speed 3 :rofl:. He thought it was just busted but you can see in his video the Boost button lighting up.

I don’t know of any actual issues with power. The karts have been great.

The only other problem I hate is when everyone feels their tires and half are stone cold and the other half are warm, but that’s not the karts fault. Actually though I have noticed (which makes sense) a cold kart on a warm track heats up much faster (maybe 2-3 laps vs 5+ for cold/cold).

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Well, that’s a wrap (almost)!

Stacey got the gang together for a group photo! (Icaro was late so not included, alas)

Our final night went off without a hitch! D1-4 were the sacrificial lambs and we ventured forth onto a cold track 2 and did our thing. It was a gas and a nice end to the 6 weeks.

We will have to wait for Wills email about the points but it looks like things went as expected, with some strong performances and some disappointing moments for some. But, in the end, we all land where we should be, for where we are now.


Alex had a terrific night landing 2nd in both heats with the exact same laptime, 48.296

Heat 1 was interesting in that I got a “quiet” kart that did not make the vroom sounds. It was pretty mesmerizing and I focused on tire noises. The electric engines are so quiet, you don’t even have servo whine to go by. The track was cold and we got progressively faster. The front of the field dipped into the 48s while the rest of us filled out the 49’s. I finished 6th with a 49.2.

You can see track warming in the laptime spread

Heat 2 benefitted from another 4 heats warning it up prior to our second attempt. This time I got a normal kart and drive progressively faster laps, landing my fastest just before the white flag was waved, with a 48.8. I am content, finishing 7th again.


I may not be the fastest but laps 7-12 are badass, consistency wise.

I am happy with the league, overall. Perhaps even ecstatic? It’s really fun, and affordable. There’s lots of folks of every level, so there’s a place for every racer. It’s not sprint racing, but it’s a ton of fun and a great way to get quick.

I really enjoyed the practice nights, too and hope we get more of that. Ideally, every Monday night should be league practice. I found my physical fitness took a noticeable turn for the better, while running around the city, due to all this driving. Bi-weekly racing is the ideal!


Racer and YouTuber Nik Trenchi tore it up tonight. Here he is in an artsy moment

I am definitely gonna sign up again and do the next league in January. I hope we get something in between, but as of yet it’s all just scuttlebutt.

I would like to do a bit better, though, next time. I think I can be top 5 with some work and luck. I’d like to see if I can rope @speedcraft or maybe @tjkoyen into a deep dive on the line and how I’m working it. I have tons of evidence of my crimes for their review, should this come to pass.

I have been messing around, trying to figure out what is best on the two tracks and it’s pretty hard to tell what’s correct versus what isn’t. I’ve given it a lot of thought and made a bunch of changes, but I think I can run a few tenths faster, on average. I think there’s still a bunch of time to be found.

Also, next time, I think we get weight equalization, so that will change everything. Although, the e-karts seem to be better for heavier drivers than gx270, for sure.


James, Dom and Brandon pose heroically in this lovely photo by Brandon’s mom and pit boss, Stacey Devine

As a closing rhought, I’d offer that the Supercharged League is sort of an entirely different thing than what I’ve been doing in the past, on gas powered karts, outdoors.

This is gladiator karting on fantasy tracks that dive and bank like a roller-coaster. These are not the normal turns you expect. Everything is cambered or sloped. The kart itself, drives nothing like a gx270. It’s all instant power and tons of torque, but not a ton of top end. It drives more like a sprint car, steering with throttle. And the grip… oh my the grip. The plywood/dunlops are an absolute joy, grabby and noisy. This is different, and, it’s very fun. Come join us.

For now, we have Will’s closing party and Race coming up on Nov1:

It’s not over until the fat lady sings (or Will falls out of his gokart):

now everyone would love to see where they finished in the standings and find out who won a trophy, but just sending it in an email is no fun. The fun way to do it would be something like a party with catered food, trophies announced, free race with your division, and lastly maybe something like Will racing in every division’s races consecutively to the point that he in physically exhausted.

Well guess what?? We are choosing the fun option! Two weeks from now 11/1 we will be hosting the Wednesday League Awards Night. Below is a short itinerary for the night:

5:30-5:45pm Arrival - Check-in at POS 1 in Guest Service’s
6:00pm Trophy Ceremony - Located in back dining room of restaurant upstairs
6:30pm Food - Food will be brought out ($4 Beers is also still available with membership card)
7:00pm Racing Begins - All drivers will be given one race ticket for free at check-in

See you in a couple of weeks!

The Commish

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@Bimodal_Rocket, considering where you are in your development, I encourage you to do a deep dive of your own first. At this point you will learn far more (and make far more important connections between what you ‘know’ at various levels, and what you ‘understand’) through deep introspection and asking the right questions of yourself. The days of advice like “look farther ahead”, or “seat time, seat time, seat time” being useful to you are long gone my friend… which is a good thing. :wink:

Anyway, step one would be to pick an appropriate session and watch it through, while recalling what you were intending, feeling and observing, and then write/type a self assessment for each turn, while noting any constraints (such as prioritizing or strategically sacrificing ultimate performance for one turn over an adjacent turn).

  1. The most important question is; are you using all of the available traction, from turn-in to exit, in every turn.
    Other important questions are:
  2. Are you able to avoid going over the optimum traction and slip angle levels consistently in each turn (aka are you avoiding scrubbing speed).
  3. Are you able to rotate the kart where you want to, and at the rate you want it to, in each corner.
  4. Does the ‘plan’ you are currently driving to allow you to get on the ‘gas/current’ as quickly as practical in each corner.

If the answer is YES to those 5 questions, but you are not the fastest driver, then you look for insights about your driving by asking yourself What, Where, When, Why, & What If questions about the following three things:

  1. Is my ability to sense (be sensitive to) traction limits, as good/accurate as I think it is? (do I feel like I have access to ALL of the sensory information I need to consistently feel the limit). If not, then we can talk about ways to try and improve this.
  2. Is my interpretation of the sensations I feel accurate? That is, let’s say you feel X, and for you that X=The Limit. But is it really THE LIMIT of physics, or is it your limit. It can be really hard to tell if the limit is really THE LIMIT, but if you have access to comparative data, or even clear observations of, a faster driver, you can get a sense of if/where you might be misinterpreting what you are feeling. Also, if there is a misinterpretation, it may not be a global thing, for example; you could be accurately sensing traction mid-corner in sweepers (where loads/traction builds gradually), but less accurately sensing the limit of the front end when entering a tight, low-speed turn.
  3. Is my plan for getting around each turn (and the whole track), really the optimal plan?

If the answer to any of the 5 original questions is NO, then you need to ask different questions to try and understand why, how you might fix it, and what the ‘fix’ will feel like. :

Also remember that what you think is the issue,might not actually be the issue, or the only issue (there could be multiple interconnected/cascading areas that need work. So, when you think about why you answered NO to one of the questions, consider if it’s an intention/plan issue, or an execution (driver input) issue, or a sensation/sensitivity issue, or an interpretation issue, or a fear/confidence issue, or a lack of knowledge about the energy cycle/traction/slip angles, etc.

And

The reason why I wanted to rope you in is this. I am honestly a bit baffled by this grip. I literally can’t tell if one approach and its resulting noises/feels is better or worse from a time perspective.

There’s multiple ways to skin the cat and I am somewhat struggling with figuring out how to asses it.

Line matters a lot when the grip is so available. There’s a couple places where I am simply unable to tell via “feels” if being later apex/wider turn in is beneficial or not. Additionally , most people seem to go a different route than I chose, which suggests I’m prioritizing differently, on purpose.

Anyways there’s a couple specific things that I can’t seem to decide on. In general I have been using width where others do not and, in some cases, I may be correct. But, not sure.

That’s a very good question. I think that what’s going on here is that the driving is so different that I’m just not able to tell if I’m being too precious with how I’m treating the line and turns. It’s all right foot, low end, rotational grip stuff. Traction and slip angles are a bit unusual, here.

I have not been simming. I have been watching footage, thinking and absorbing. There’s gears turning constantly and have been.

One of the challenges is the relative unavailability of seat time until its go-time. And, go-time (the race) is not where you play.

So, changes have been incremental ones for fear of the obvious. It’s an odd situation where you can’t just go send 30 tries up the ramp from the far left edge then 30 from the middle, etc. Interpreting what the tires are telling me under stress on plywood isn’t obvious, either.

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True
In the R6-Heat 1 video, there are two banked right-hand turns, and for both of these you tend to force the kart to take a take a shallow exit out of the preceding LH turn so you can get far left for a very wide entry into the next RH turn. Watching it, just gives me the impression of speed scrubbing off as you exit the LH turn. Doing that does give you a wider, rounder entry to the next turn, but that comes with the penalty of both scrubbed speed from the proceeding turn, and traveling a longer distance between corners. Also, because of the way the RH turns are banked, your competitors seem to be able to ‘lean into’ that banking during the entry phase of the turn, so it does not look like they have to slow down ‘extra’ because of the relatively tighter entry. Also, as as the rear of the kart rolls into the turn, the banking seems to provide plenty of traction without excessive speed scrubbing. I can’t tell for sure from the video, but it looks like you were losing some time in both of these turns.

Conversely, there is another similar, but un-banked, RH turn that you tend to enter more shallowly than your competitors. You seem to scrub some speed mid-turn, BUT, you also carry a lot of speed in. That all seems to be a wash, but in this case you have traveled a significantly shorter distance than your competitors, and it looks like you gain time because of this.

You have to always evaluate your performance, or try to workout performance improvements, based on the constraints of your vehicle and the environment. So, low HP, heavy kart, track with good grip = Maximum momentum conservation, minimum scrubbed speed (especially apex out), and shortest distance you can travel without impacting the other requirements.

When your are thinking and absorbing, make sure you are also thinking about the sensations and forces; preferably if you are imagining it, you should be moving as though it is actually happening. If you are thinking about taking those banked RH turns with a bit shallower entry, think about how that will impact that turn and the proceeding turn. How would letting the kart roll more naturally out of the LH turn feel different than what you have been doing. How would the energy vector through the kart differently to the LF wheel when you turn into the RH turn. How would that influence where/when and how quickly the kart rotates. Again; feel how the change will impact the experience of driving those two turns.

One last thing; Traction… describe it for me… how do you know when you’re using 80% of it, or 100% or 110%? It’s a nebulous black-box term that does a very poor job ‘representing’ a complex process/feeling. Now, you can be VERY fast with just that ‘feeling’, but if you can make that feeling comprehensible to the non-feeling (intellectual) portion of your brain, then the feeling can take on a broader, deeper, more holistic meaning. I do this by relating what I feel to a location on the slip-G curve that has been extruded out around a turn.
TRNWR100
.
Well actually, to be more precise, since the potential of a tire to produce traction is directly related to load, my real-time mental model of where I am on the slip-G curve takes that into account as shown in this very badly produced (from 1987) example of the curve for a ‘sweeper’ turn where braking is not required.

BLNWR100
Anyway, as I said, it certainly is not ‘necessary’ to do this to be fast, but in my experience it provides an exponential increase in sensitivity, precision, performance evaluation, confidence, etc. etc, etc.

I recommend you fire up your sim and give this a try. Start with way to low tire pressures because it makes it easier to feel the slip angles and the transition up, and back down the curve. Then go back to normal pressures, then try non-optimal gearing that bogs you a bit mid-corner. Work out how you can best deal with that; theorize it, imagine it, feel it, then do it. Just play around… give yourself challenges, then try to overcome them.

This is a good idea. I’ll try this on video. I have noticed that there is a definite chain effect. For example the quality of the downhill concentric right turns (5 right apexes) on t1 is really influenced by how you clip the double apex left that precedes it.

By the way, what’s different with grip seems to be the grabbiness. You know how you get shralp-shralp noises off kart tires when rotating them hard? That stiction releasing? It’s more of a popping thing with these tires on the painted wood. Perhaps that’s why I don’t feel sliding inefficiencies as clearly.

Perhaps it’s like this… grip…partial hop… full release. It’s either gripping perfectly, or starting to release/grab/release. (Understeer isn’t obvious unless it’s massive… which brings us to a question… when the kart pushes wide and the tire feels like it’s flopping/rolling laterally (wrong direction)… is that understeer?) it’s not a push/slide. It’s a push/crab walk. Here’s the kart wandering left on cold tires as an example @ 43s:

Also, perhaps this helps comprehend the grip. When the track gets warmed up there is no braking. The kart slams into rubber and holds. You decelerate using engine braking and it is rare that you’d actually fully lift. I can’t off the top of my head think of a single turn where you are fully off power. It is possible to rotate the kart traditionally on the cement part (the bottom closing bit of both tracks feeds out to S/F complex on concrete.

So anyways, driving with right foot only with all this grip makes you really feel when the kart is crabwalking with the rear but it’s not clear when that’s “wrong”. Take the sweeper on t2 for example. Being slightly wide feels fast. It’s confusing.

Yes, SODI has good tools to measure and adjust various karting positions, such as throttle power level etc. In our case yes, we can provide full CAN communication access for any safety system which provides power level management. In this case basically each track owner can manage track power levels. They can create even if they want 10 different power levels, each one individually. But what each one can’t create is characteristics. BSR creates a curve pattern that gives the feeling of how the kart behaves on the track, but the track operator can change power levels and limit them, or expand them, but within a limited range. Technically through CAN this can be done in an unlimited range, but for safety reasons it is limited to certain limits. Currently, BSR has developed an X-GEN onboard computer that will allow practically unlimited functions for BSR karts and these functions will be able to be given to clients or open-source developers to create unlimited application solutions for BSR karts, opening up unprecedented opportunities.

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Thanks Artis! I had assumed that this might be the case. It seems really interesting to me, this electric karting future!

While we are at it… how about some better apps for the customers data? Laptimes/sectors/etc… give us the data and the ability to play with it.

Also, not necessarily directed at Artis, but… you know how we use RPM trace on mychron to infer stuff?

I think something like that data would also be useful for e-karts. It would be helpful to see when the axle spins faster as tire releases grip. It might be helpful in better understanding performances. I imagine there’s a ton of data that can be displayed graphically.

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So, what other opportunities are there?

It occurs to me that new karters, after participating in the league, might want other, similar experiences:

NJMP: Evening Rental League starting up October 27th. 7pm Friday nights.

https://njmp.com/rental-kart-league

ALSO: Monthly Rental enduros (2hr):

https://njmp.com/endurance-days

RPM has a couple locations in the area. It appears they do leagues, but nothing currently although there’s a form to fill out if you want to participate in their league, which would elicit a response of some sort. Go here:

There’s also Touring Kart Championship, a personal favorite with lots of great racers, which has a winter calendar:

They have an active discord. PM for INV.